Drawing the line.

[OWSI176288]

As you say it's not the subject of the thread and trust me dives have been well discussed elsewhere. However just for the record, I would have had no qualms about doing the dive on my own with my wife if we were the only pair on the boat, without the guide. My navigation and night diving skills are good.
However, I believe the issue here is a basic safety one that there was a plan and the group was diving as a group and the splitting up of the group would have caused additional unnecessary complications under the circumstances.
Remember that it was also necessary to resurface with lights out at the end of the dive.

Sorry if you took it personal. It wasn’t meant that way, and if I offended you, then I apologize. I wasn’t questioning your dive skills, I was questioning the dive plan.

I wasn’t going to reply as I don’t want to turn this into a discussion about group diving being nothing more then diving in the same ocean at the same time. But....This whole dive plan sounds convoluted, as it makes you way too dependent on the guide. I can think of a number of reasons why a diver, or buddy team, would need to surface, or does surface, before or without the others. What happens then?

If someone has a problem, does the whole group goes to the surface together? And how is it conveyed to the whole group (that may be spread out) that there is a problem? Does the guide surface with the diver(s) with the problem and leaves the group below? And what happens if they can’t get the guide’s attention in time. Or do the divers with the problem surface alone. What if a diver does surface with out the group as planned? What then?

 

[miketsp]

Sorry if you took it personal. It wasn’t meant that way, and if I offended you, then I apologize. I wasn’t questioning your dive skills, I was questioning the dive plan.

I wasn’t going to reply as I don’t want to turn this into a discussion about group diving being nothing more then diving in the same ocean at the same time. But....This whole dive plan sounds convoluted, as it makes you way too dependent on the guide. I can think of a number of reasons why a diver, or buddy team, would need to surface, or does surface, before or without the others. What happens then?

If someone has a problem, does the whole group goes to the surface together? And how is it conveyed to the whole group (that may be spread out) that there is a problem? Does the guide surface with the diver(s) with the problem and leaves the group below? And what happens if they can’t get the guide’s attention in time. Or do the divers with the problem surface alone. What if a diver does surface with out the group as planned? What then?

No problem, I didn't take it personally. The group was small, just 2 buddy pairs plus the guide and the DM from the LDS. The idea of having the guide was to follow a particularly interesting route, that's what he was there for, vis was good, it was agreed that if any pair needed to go up they would give an OK signal with their light and follow snorkelling on the surface. Without the OK signal, all would surface.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

FWIW, I'd let the matter drop. You found the guide, you made your point, the (young) DM likely learned not to screw around in the dark. 'Nuff said.

 

[opiniongirl]

Being a professional is knowing what the line is. The joke was unprofessional, and not even amusing. Both the guide (who remained silent) and the divemaster acted unprofessionally, and both should be counseled on this.

I would suggest bringing it up to the owner, perhaps mention that you think the matter is resolved, but that another less experienced diver may have been more upset. At a minimum, I would look for a dramatic change in their professional behavior on your next outing, if there is any similar incidents, absolutely say something.

 

[miketsp]

FWIW, I'd let the matter drop. You found the guide, you made your point, the (young) DM likely learned not to screw around in the dark. 'Nuff said.

Yeah, I was swinging around to let the matter drop but it looks like things have moved on. I just got an individualised email invitation to a social event at the LDS this weekend with a phone-call follow up to make sure I'm going, something that never happened before so it looks like the owner is already aware of the incident. There were other witnesses - divers that were sitting out that dive on the boat and I've had comments made to me that I was right to complain.
It's looking obvious that somebody complained in my name.

So I think the best way is to treat it as a comment rather than a complaint.

Although I must say it's much easier to take a light hearted view sitting here in comfort, at my keyboard than it was while standing on the platform out at sea in pitch darkness with no references.

 

[bedmund]

I wouldn't say anything. Everybody has their brain turned off sometimes and makes stupid jokes or says the wrong thing. I'd blow it off this time and only address it if it happens again.

-Bill

 

[miketsp]

Being a professional is knowing what the line is. The joke was unprofessional, and not even amusing. Both the guide (who remained silent) and the divemaster acted unprofessionally, and both should be counseled on this.
..snip..

Just for the record, the guide was not at fault. He didn't speak the language we were using. As soon as he realised that I had blown up at our DM he realised what was going on and flashed his light on his face briefly and identified himself.

 

[jbd]

Yeah, I was swinging around to let the matter drop but it looks like things have moved on. I just got an individualised email invitation to a social event at the LDS this weekend with a phone-call follow up to make sure I'm going, something that never happened before so it looks like the owner is already aware of the incident. There were other witnesses - divers that were sitting out that dive on the boat and I've had comments made to me that I was right to complain.
It's looking obvious that somebody complained in my name.

So I think the best way is to treat it as a comment rather than a complaint.

Although I must say it's much easier to take a light hearted view sitting here in comfort, at my keyboard than it was while standing on the platform out at sea in pitch darkness with no references.

I agree with Doc Intrepid and obviously from this post of yours enough has been said. Beyond that it would seem that the LDS values you as customer.

 

[Wristshot]

Since you asked for opinions, here's mine.

I would suggest that at some other time, without others around, you have a gentle friendly conversation with the DM where you apologize for blowing a gasket, but you explain that there is a time and a place for joking around and kidding around. Diving is a serious thing, and while it doesn't have to be anti-fun, there are times when messing with people is inappropriate. A professional DM with a good attitude will listen and respect your mature approach. If you don't get respect, find another DM that will respect you.

Of course at the time I probably would have said some inappropriate things myself, so what the heck do I know!


Wristshot

 

[cdiver2]

Mike I don't blame you one bit we are all told plan the dive and dive the plan. If I was told things had changed just as I was making the giant stride I would be very upset.
For those that have said they would have gone of without the group ! I don't care how good you think you are if you can not keep to the plan you can not be that good a diver.