drysuit shell versus crushed neoprene.

[ScubaDadMiami]

Get trilam with proper thermals to keep warm rather than rely on the suit material to keep you warm. It's lighter, it dries faster. With a proper cut, I don't give much stock to the statements about it being less streamlined than the neoprene. No matter how much they crush the neoprene, it will still change your buoyancy characteristics with depth whereas trilam won't.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

No matter how much they crush the neoprene, it will still change your buoyancy characteristics with depth whereas trilam won't.

Think about that for a moment...It's true that the trilam suit fabric itself will not compress with increased depth like neoprene fabric will. But the same cannot be said for all the air needed to loft the insulation in the underwear. That gas will compress and it's a safe bet that air, nitrox, trimix, or argon compresses much more readily than neoprene.

And in my extensive cold water dry suit experience, you get more bouyancy change and need to add more air more frequently with a trilam shell suit to maintain bouyancy and prevent sqeeze than with a neoprene drysuit.

 

[trevinkorea]

I love my latex seals (wrists and neck), never had a problem with them. don;t notice the cold either. I wouldn;t worry about it. just get a good set of underwear

when you;re back in BC shoot me a PM

Sure thing. I've added you to my list of people to contact when I get back to BC.
Can't tell you how much I've missed living on the coast, close to some great dive sites and dive buddies I can actually communicate with. :sigh:

 

[ScubaDadMiami]

Think about that for a moment...It's true that the trilam suit fabric itself will not compress with increased depth like neoprene fabric will. But the same cannot be said for all the air needed to loft the insulation in the underwear. That gas will compress and it's a safe bet that air, nitrox, trimix, or argon compresses much more readily than neoprene.

And in my extensive cold water dry suit experience, you get more bouyancy change and need to add more air more frequently with a trilam shell suit to maintain bouyancy and prevent sqeeze than with a neoprene drysuit.

True, you must add/vent gas from either suit. However, that will be the same. On the other hand, the trilam will not cause the diver to need to add/vent even more. It's kind of like overweighting. Yes, you can compensate for it with your wing. However, each rise or fall of the diver requires more effort to compensate for expanding gas properties.

Regarding thermals, I wear warmer than I need for the conditions and add just enough gas to avoid squeeze. So, there really isn't an issue with carrying excess gas to loft the material while the material still provides warmth without problems.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

True, you must add/vent gas from either suit. However, that will be the same. On the other hand, the trilam will not cause the diver to need to add/vent even more. It's kind of like overweighting. Yes, you can compensate for it with your wing. However, each rise or fall of the diver requires more effort to compensate for expanding gas properties.

Regarding thermals, I wear warmer than I need for the conditions and add just enough gas to avoid squeeze. So, there really isn't an issue with carrying excess gas to loft the material while the material still provides warmth without problems.

You are I think still not understanding what is hapening in aneoprene suit compared to a shell suit and underwear.

I think we both agree some amount of gas is needed in the insulation material to insulate the diver.

In a 7mm neoprene drysuit this comes in the form of 7mm of neoprene (at the surface), light undergarmetns (like a pair of sweatpants and sweat shirt) and a minimal amount of air filling nooks and crannies in the sweats and in the suit.

In a shell suit, you have maybe 1-1.5 mm of nearly incompressible suit material and a heavier layer of insulating undergarment such as acrylic pile or fleece, thinsulate. etc and the air required to fill and loft that insultation.

The issue then is how compressible is the thicker gas filled insulation in the trilam's undergarments compared to the minimal undergarments and 7mm neoprene of the neoprene suit.

At 132 ft, neoprene is pretty much maxed out compression wise and a 7mm suit will be more like 3mm in thickness. Approx 60% compression in 5 ATA is not bad compared to the additional air needed in the thicker suit insulation of a trilam.

So yes, neoprene compresses at depth and more air is required to offset this compression and maintain volume/bouyancy. But air also compresses at depth so the air present in the thicker insulation of even a snuggly squeezed trilam also needs to be offset with the addition of more air. So if anything it's a wash in terms of air required to maintain bouyancy.

 

[airsix]

Any way you go, you'll be happy with a drysuit. Most of the discussion has focussed around neoprene and tri-lam, so I'll throw in my thoughts on vulcanized. I have been diving with the same Viking rubber suit since 1986. The darn thing still looks new, smells new, and works as new. You don't have to wait for it to dry (it's dry before you're done stowing your other gear). It's indistructible. You won't find a more durable suit than vulcanized rubber. Neoprene suits are more comfortable, and I like their snug fit and stretch. The vulcanized suits are a little stiff with less 'give', and yes, you need warmer undergarments than with a neoprean suit. That said, if I had to buy a new suit today I'd probably still go with a Viking because of it's ability to hold up to wear and tear so well. There's a reason almost every municipal dive-resuce team, law-enforcement dive team, and commercial diver use them. I also like latex seals. You have to treat them with care, but the bottom line is they don't leak. I always hear people talking about "dry suits are just 'less wet'", but they must all be using neoprene seals.

-Ben M.

 

[diverDano]

Just my 2 cents....
I prefer the neoprene dry suit for several reasons.....
1) The material itself is warmer.
2) The material is safer.
3) Neoprene allowes me to wear minimal undergarments.

By warmer, I mean that the seals(neoprene) insulate better that latex seals. When a considerable amount of blood runs through your wrists, i want as much insulation around them as possible.

By safer I mean the bouancy characteristics of neoprene. And, as well, a well made, form fitting suit will not allow excesive air content in the suit, providing a more stable diving situation.

The underwear I wear is only a pair of poly cycling leggings, poly socks, and a poly paintball jersy, with a thermal vest over that. Makes for considerably comfy diving.

To address the previous post about "wet" dry suits, I find sometimes the inside of my suit is wet, and find that it is sweat that has been wicked away from my body by the poly clothes I wear.

PS....I wear a High Tide drysuit.( he is local)

 

[jonnythan]

I feel the buoyancy characteristics of neoprene make it far and away more dangerous than trilam.

With a neoprene drysuit, you are *necessarily* overweighted by a large margin at depth.

 

[ScubaDadMiami]

I feel the buoyancy characteristics of neoprene make it far and away more dangerous than trilam.

With a neoprene drysuit, you are *necessarily* overweighted by a large margin at depth.

You beat me to it.

It's one thing to have a preference about certain things. However, I would certainly say that there is no inherent saftey factor to neoprene over trilam. I would argue the opposite due to the weighting/buoyancy issues.

 

[jonnythan]

To further elaborate.. assume you have a neoprene drysuit and you have a complete wing failure at the beginning of your dive at 100 feet.

You will suddenly be very negative and will almost certainly have to dump weight to get back up... and by the time you get near the surface you will be significantly *underweighed* and not be able to stay down.