Efficiency evidence: frog vs flutter?

[dmaziuk]

Maybe use power like the frog kick to start getting it moving forward and then switch to flutter ?

My off-the-top-of-the-head guess would be that breaststroke kick involves larger muscles that can generate more power longer... and water resistance: since the rubber band creates more drag than water, it removes the advantage of streamlined styles.

 

[mdb]

Flutter kick ?, what is that ?

Come on Remy B. You know. A flutter kick is a short stroke rapid kick used by swimmers worldwide.

Have you ever been to a swim meet?

 

[BRT]

I am a big fan of the frog kick but I don't buy into this "glide" saving energy, if anything it is a net negative. Changing inertia and regaining speed is more expensive than maintaining it. Think of it this way, do you get your best fuel economy on the freeway by maintaining a constant 70mph or do you accelerate to 70, coast aka "glide" down to 50, accelerate back to 70, coast to 50, repeat over and over?

Actually I believe that in gas mileage competitions the technique is to accelerate at a rate that the motor is efficient at (greatest horsepower to fuel use) and then to shut the engine down and coast.

 

[Remy B.]

Come on Remy B. You know. A flutter kick is a short stroke rapid kick used by swimmers worldwide.

Have you ever been to a swim meet?

I don't swim, I dive, same medium, different technique

 

[mdb]

I don't swim, I dive, same medium, different technique

Good on you. I'm sure you are a great diver; even if you don't swim.

 

[Norwegian Cave Diver]

In Cave diving I use the frog kick almost exclusively. Last thing I want to do is silt out in a cave. The exception is when I am swimming through a bedding plane(very low overhead area) where using a frog kick will cause your feet/fins to hit the ceiling above you. I/We have done a test where if we swim at a normal rate in a cave and then swim that same cave at a slower than normal rate - we actually go further into the cave with the slow rate kick - with the same gas consumption - than we would if we swam at the normal rate of speed. Slower = further. So the question of efficiency of kicking and slowing down and then kicking to come back up to speed is most likely true. What everyone should understand is how to do a Frog Kick - Flutter - scissor kicks. They all have their place. Even if you never become a cave diver. We all should know how to swim near the bottom and not silt out. And as a bonus - once you learn the frog kick you can learn how to do helicopter turns and learn how to swim backwards. Learn them all - decide for yourself what works best for the diving you do.

 

[Coztick]

Technique is key.
A flutter kick is quite simple where the frog takes a little more refining.
The better you get, the more natural it feels and the more effective and efficient you become.

 

[boulderjohn]

Double the speed and you will quadruple the resistance (or something like that).

As I was discussing back kick technique with my student, he (a college professor) showed me the appropriate formula. All the factors are simple multipliers except for velocity, which is squared before multiplying. That means that the velocity of the kick has a HUGE impact, and explains why in frog kicking and back kicking, the power stroke should be fast and the recovery stroke (which works against your direction of travel) should be s l o w.

That is the main difference between the flutter kick and the frog kick. With the flutter, all action creates forward thrust. With the frog kick, you have a recovery stroke that prepares you for the next power stroke. Done badly, the recovery stroke interferes with forward momentum.

A flutter kick is quite simple where the frog takes a little more refining.

If you are going to compare frog kicking to flutter kicking yourself, remember that you are comparing YOUR frog kick to YOUR flutter kick. Yes, the flutter kick is much easier than the frog kick, so you may be comparing a poor frog kick to a good flutter kick.

My frog kick performance when I first learned it was laughable. It slowly got better. It took a very, very long time to get it to where it is now. I think most people would be impressed by my current frog kick, but I know people who are better. Right now I can move faster with a flutter kick, and I will use that when I feel the need for speed (usually overtaking a student for some reason or other). for normal diving, though, I much prefer the frog kick. It feels completely relaxed and effortless.

 

[Coztick]

If you are going to compare frog kicking to flutter kicking yourself, remember that you are comparing YOUR frog kick to YOUR flutter kick. Yes, the flutter kick is much easier than the frog kick, so you may be comparing a poor frog kick to a good flutter kick.

Nope. I was comparing the first attempt with later refining...

My frog kick performance when I first learned it was laughable. It slowly got better. It took a very, very long time to get it to where it is now. I think most people would be impressed by my current frog kick, but I know people who are better.

As you so effectively discribed..

 

[CT-Rich]

Flutter kick ?, what is that ?

A flutter kick is a bicycle kick done incorrectly....