End of Diving Dream?

[IceIce]

I was having a casual dinner with my regular diving group. One of the friend seemed to be in the mood to point herself as a very experienced diver, since she has been officially a DM for a few months.
As a person who dives with her many many times before, I could say she is a good diver, but she has noticeable flaws and mistakes too, acceptable but it made me quite uncomfortable that she thinks she has become flawless as her experience and confidence grow.

Put aside the over-confidence, she shared this story, an OW student unable to clear his mask from time to time or with great difficulties and kept bolting up to the surface. Anyway, although she was not the one who made the decision, she told the guy that he was not cut to be a diver. Period.

I hope to hear from any of you who teaches, or who knows or have the same experience before, is that judgement true? That he is not suitable to be a diver?

Because in my personal opinion, one can have great difficulties practising skill in OW but it doesn't mean that their diving hobby is a dream. If they are persistent and put enough effort to overcome their difficulties, they can master those skills, they can overcome their fear, and somehow they can become a good divers too. (I heard Einstein failed in Math before). I just don't entertained by the idea that she might crush someone dream instead of helping him to solve the problems.
But in fact, I don't really know, at my level of experience, I never teach and I don't know any similar case. I still hope my belief is correct?

 

[Thalassamania]

I hope to hear from any of you who teaches, or who knows or have the same experience before, is that judgement true? That he is not suitable to be a diver?

I've never had anyone (including a non-swimmer who is now an instructor and owns a resort) who wanted to dive who could not learn, it's just harder and takes longer for some than for others (he needed to become a strong swimmer first and did).

 

[amascuba]

Everybody is different. In two years I've probably worked with around 100 students. All of them have different backgrounds, personalities, phobia's, and learning abilities. I've had many people who have problems with mask clearing at first. In the case of one particular person I and other dive masters and instructors worked with him one on one for many months before he felt comfortable going to open water. He had a real problem with water getting up his nose. He turned out to be a great diver after it was all said and done and he was very grateful for the experience. I've never told anybody that they weren't cut out to be a diver. Just about anybody can do the basic recreational type diving and be very proficient at it. It takes some people longer than others, but the people who make the biggest strides are the ones your most proud of. Telling people that they aren't cut out to be a diver is just lack of teaching ability and impatience.

Put your friend in a group of divers with 30+ years of experience with thousands of dives and see how experienced she feels. I'm often humbled by the people that I'm around. I've been working in dive shops for nearly three years and I don't necessarily consider myself experienced, but I do have experiences. She may be humbled at some point when she realizes how much she really doesn't know. There's much more to learn then what's in your local dive master class. Scuba Diving is truly one of those sports where you are consistently learning new things if you keep your ears, eyes, and mind open.

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

WOW...Why would you ever want to say that to someone....Thats sad......Everyone can learn...it might just take longer. I was talking to someone that was having sooo much difficulty that they couldnt do it. The instructor told her to practice everytime in the shower.....and after practice, she nailed it. Alot of people freak out, its unnatural to be doing what we do and your mind tells you to abort.....You just have to take time. To be honest I would tell your friend that with that mentality shes not meant to be a DM or Instructor.....

 

[spectrum]

Well I'm thankful she was not my wife's instructor.

My wife had a difficult start but our instructor was there to tell her she "could do this" when she needed to hear that. Together with time, space and coaching her original challenges are things of the past.

I appreciate you recognition that for many diving is a dream and not just an expendable passing fancy.

Pete

 

[Green_Manelishi]

Was it the bolter's dream to be a diver or was it someone else's dream that the bolter be a diver? If it was the bolter's dream then a realistic amount of time should be spent trying to determine the cause of fear, get over the fear and develop the skills. But under no circumstances should that person be trying to learn to dive if always "this close" to bolting for the surface.

With that said, diving, contrary to marketing hype, is not meant for everyone. Nor is skiing, snowboarding, shooting or about a million other sports. Some folks just don't "have it", whatever "it" is and they should find a more appropriate hobby that won't endanger themself and perhaps someone else.

That's been my experience and I've heard that from an instructor that I know and respect.

At the same time, not all divers "have it together" on every dive. That's why the rule is "any diver can cancel any dive at any time for any reason" no questions asked.

The divers that do "have it together" might not "have it together" for certain types of diving. I have no desire to be in a wreck but I enjoy being under ice. A good friend of mine loves penetrating wrecks but has no desire to be under ice.

Anyway, that's my 'pinion. I am sure others will :light: me for being so narrow minded.

G_M

Let me add (via edit) that I have assisted with students and was amazed, nay shocked and dismayed, at the complaints about exposure protection and weight of gear and hair being messed up and I can't stand having this mask on my face and I can't feel a thing with these mitts on my hand and .... and .... and ...

Yes, it's heavy and your hair is messed up and your mask is full of ... but get over it, move south and be a WWW or quit.

 

[H2Andy]

Put aside the over-confidence, she shared this story, an OW student unable to clear his mask from time to time or with great difficulties and kept bolting up to the surface. Anyway, although she was not the one who made the decision, she told the guy that he was not cut to be a diver. Period.

nah ... she's full of it. based on the information you provided, that decision was premature.

at the very least, as Green suggests, i would have talked to the student to see his motivation and goals before suggesting he should quit trying. that's a big deal.

 

[tracy_from_oz]

I do not think your friend should be a DM.

She sounds like the she missed the class on teaching and teaching to peoples strengths. No one learns the same way. I hated taking my mask off in the pool as the water used to go up my nose, took some time but I do not have the problem anymore.

I think it would be good if you could find this person thru store records and get them back into diving. That would be the best thing in this situation.

Big deal she is a DM, that doesnt give you the right to ***** down someones dreams of scuba diving.

 

[cummings66]

I can't say for sure, but I know there are some people who are not suited to be some things. Not everybody can be what they wish to be, a blind man can't become the worlds best marksman no matter how hard he tries.

I won't say it's right or wrong to tell somebody they won't be able to be a diver, but I can understand that if a person panic'd big time and nearly drowned doing the same mistakes over and over that they might be told they should pursue other interests.

That said, I can't base a lot of anything on diving because everybody I know who's into scuba has been able to pull it off. As a pilot I can relate a bit because I've known the instructors, privately they've told me their student will never be able to solo. In one case the lady had over 100 hours instruction and still couldn't get the basics down well enough to solo. She had been through many different CFI's and never did solo in the end, she just couldn't connect the dots.

Maybe he was right, but he never told her she couldn't do it and he never gave up on her. She eventually decided she couldn't do it on her own, but it cost her a boatload of money and years of effort. She tried the schools, and finally private instruction before giving up. I've known others who've given up trying to be pilots, it happens that not everybody is cut out to be a pilot, just like not everybody is cut out to be a diver.

So yes, there are people who just will not be able to be divers, but I don't think that would be very many. IMO any normal healthy person can accomplish the OW skills, and to be honest I don't understand why some have been told they can't do it or told it's too hard. IMO it should be doable by most anybody, yet there has got to be a percentage of the population that can't do it.

I was not there, you were not there. We do not know why the DM told the student that and just maybe she was right. To assume that because you know the DM to not be as good as you think they should be does not mean that the DM could not recognize a pattern that leads to danger. Everybody starts somewhere, and maybe in the process they learn humility, this seems to be a lesson yet to be learned by the DM.

To be honest, to be told that over mask clearing was a mistake IMO. However, I did not see this person and will not second guess somebody who was there to witness the events unfold.

The only red flag I see is the bragging of the DM, especially about telling somebody they aren't cut out to dive. That sounds like a better than thou attitude and needs adjustment.

 

[Bill51]

Was it the bolter's dream to be a diver or was it someone else's dream that the bolter be a diver? If it was the bolter's dream then a realistic amount of time should be spent trying to determine the cause of fear, get over the fear and develop the skills. But under no circumstances should that person be trying to learn to dive if always "this close" to bolting for the surface.

With that said, diving, contrary to marketing hype, is not meant for everyone. Nor is skiing, snowboarding, shooting or about a million other sports. Some folks just don't "have it", whatever "it" is and they should find a more appropriate hobby that won't endanger themself and perhaps someone else.

That's been my experience and I've heard that from an instructor that I know and respect.

At the same time, not all divers "have it together" on every dive. That's why the rule is "any diver can cancel any dive at any time for any reason" no questions asked.

The divers that do "have it together" might not "have it together" for certain types of diving. I have no desire to be in a wreck but I enjoy being under ice. A good friend of mine loves penetrating wrecks but has no desire to be under ice.

Anyway, that's my 'pinion. I am sure others will :light: me for being so narrow minded.

G_M

Let me add (via edit) that I have assisted with students and was amazed, nay shocked and dismayed, at the complaints about exposure protection and weight of gear and hair being messed up and I can't stand having this mask on my face and I can't feel a thing with these mitts on my hand and .... and .... and ...

Yes, it's heavy and your hair is messed up and your mask is full of ... but get over it, move south and be a WWW or quit.

Great points!

Without know the rest of the story it’s very possible that she told the diver exactly what he wanted to hear – and relay to someone that might have been pushing him to dive. It might have also been something I’ve seen too many times where someone says they always wanted to dive when they actually meant to say they always wanted to tell their friends they are a diver.

I encourage most everyone that shows an interest in diving to give it a try, but there are a few folks that I just ignore because they would either hurt themselves or someone else in short order if they were to take up diving – unless they also had a personal attitude transplant first.

While diving may not be as demanding as flying, there is still a need to have the right mental attitude and some abilities are required to dive safely. We had a flight student years ago who took over 80 hours to solo (instead of a usual 15-18 at the time), took over 1,000 hours to get a commercial license instead of the usual 250, and refused to listen to anyone who told him he just did not have the ability to multitask and focus needed to be a pilot. He killed himself in a stupid plane crash 2 weeks after getting his commercial license and a paying job flying.