FBI Collecting your Information

[rstone]

Originally posted by NetDoc
It's like a fence around your house... some want it for keeping stuff from getting away... others to stop bad stuff from getting in... some don't even want the fence! BUT, most of us agree we need some type of protection around ourselves. Now, I may not get to decide how high or wide or what color this fence is going to be. I may even see better ways to use or make the fence. That's OK... the big thing is that the fence is there. It may not be perfect, but it's there to keep crap out and stop our valuables from leaving.

What about those of us who dont live in a house with a fenced backyard haha

Well I'm not sure where you live or what kinda house you live in, but If I have a fence made, I'm sure going to make sure its as wide and high as I want with the wood I want, as was promised to me by the contracters who drew up the quote. If you cant deliver on something you promised in your contract, you have no business offering it.

Ryan Stone

 

[The Chairman]

didn't come to my country's de-fence! :tease:

 

[Bob3]

Hey funky__monks, what does it say on your vehicle's (NH) license plate?


As far as I am aware, the training agencies have already turned over their records.
Overseas training facilities are also being canvassed.
Big Brother isn't telling us everything, there's quite a bit MORE than an "unspecified threat" as indicated by the pattern emerging from the feedback of a fairly extensive network of shop owners and trainers that I'm in contact with.
Scuttlebutt shure is entertaining, eh?
:mean:

 

[pipedope]

If you think that the peacefull situation in Germany and Japan came from the war then you might want to think again.

Look at the "Great War", you know, the one before they thought to put numbers on them. The crushing oppression of Germany after that one resulted in WW2. It was more the administration of justice and rebuilding of the economies of those countries after WW2 that resulted in the peace you see now.

Look at North Korea, doesn't look very peacefull does it? That is the best case today where there was a war and a stop to the hostilities but no follow up in justice.

Yes, sometimes direct action is needed. Sometimes WAR is needed. Don't confuse the terrorist criminal act of 9-11 with war. If you want to call it war, and the response, war, then those people being held in Cuba are PRISONERS OF WAR!

Why are they not prisoners of war? Just because our government doesn't want to afford them the rights and procedures that they are intitled to under US and international law. Hey, our minds are made up, don't bother us with evidence.

Are all of the people who think what the government is doing is just fine going to feel the same way when THEY are the people being bombed or locked up without charges?
If the government can get away with with ANYONE, then they can get away with it on YOU or ME!

Open your eyes! The actions of the US government have don't more to destroy the American way of life than all of the terrorists of all time.

Quick poll; How many of you who think the government is doing just fine have KILLED someone in the defense/service of the USA?
I have.

 

[CheeseWhiz]

The example of Korea is a good one, because, despite the fact that there was a war (oooops...police conflict), it didn't end in a victory for either side. It was a negotiated settlement. My original point was that war was sometimes necessary to remove oppressive regimes who thought that it was their God-given right to exterminate anyone who didn't agree with them. We removed no one in Korea, that's why the communists are still there.

At your invitation, I did think again, and am still convinced that the peace we see in Germany and Japan came from WWII. The chaos you refer to in Germany at the end of WWI came from the fact that we beat 'em, then ignored 'em, so that just about anything could grow out of the chaos. Luckily we learned our lesson after #II and came up with the Marshall Plan and whatever-we-called our reconstruction of Japan that lead to the (relative) peace that both of those countries enjoy today.

I'm confused, though, by your last question: why is it necessary to kill someone (I assume and hope that you mean in time of war) to have an opinion, one way or the other, about how our government is doing? It would seem like mere citizenship would qualify you for that.

 

[kyleterry]

What Freedoms?


No one told me when I got certified that this was confidential information.

I do not know what freedom I am lossing by allowing the FBI to see my SCUBA infomation.

I do not believe any of our great American war heros thought they were giving their life to protect my confidential SCUBA info.

I see no violation of freedom, or of the constitution, for the FBI to look into this information

Kyle

 

[divrnr]

Kudos Kyle!!! I have nothing to hide therefore nothing to fear! Usually those screaming the loudest have something to hide... My family has lost 5 defending our country since WWII. Do I want to see 5 more lost because my country couldn't do all that it could do to protect us?

 

[scubabunny]

ok...after reading through 6 pages, here are my thoughts..

are we at war? in the conventional sense..no. We do not have a country to declare war on. I was still a child when the Vietnam war ended, so I don't remember alot about that one. But, to me, when an organization decides to hijack planes full of innocent people and fly them into the biggest building they can find..and kill thousands of other innocent people...and then celebrate in the streets....that, to me, a non-military citizen, is an act of war.

Just because this isn't a conventional war (declared by congress) does that mean we just close our eyes and ignore what is going on?? I live 10,000 miles away from my family, and the plane that crashed in Penn. was 50 miles from my home. If that plane had stayed up another minute or two...who knows...

The FBI came and talked to our instructors this week. Being in Guam, we have alot of "vacation" divers that get certified. They just asked is to be notified privately if any students quit for no reason (no problems in the water...doing fine...then just quit after they got the hang of it). Or any students that didn't "feel right". I don't think that is wrong.

As for the records...I don't have a PADI pic card in front of me, but I don't think it says anything about being confidental...the student folder on the other hand does. So, basically, what PADI and the other agencies were giving out was just a mailing list...and I bet if they gave the mailing list to a new discount online dive shop...not many people would have a problem with it. Funny, isn't it?

I was scared after 9/11. I have never experienced anything like that before. I'm still nervous now...and I have NO problem with the government knowing my contact info (like, they don't know it already!!) And, I will help them in any way I can.

Idealism is fine...but obviously the constitution doesn't work all the time. What I find funny is the fact that prayers and religion have been abolished from public schools (because its against the constitution)..but you still have to swear on the bible in court. Someone please explain that one.

 

[cmay]

"Soylent Green is people!!!!"

Let's get real. I feel like I am reading posts from www.oswalddidntdoit.com or some other rediculous conspiracy website. Go take your medicine if you are seeing "black helicopters" following you where ever you go. I have no problem with the FBI entering my name and contact info from my diving record into a database and cross-referencing it with a list of known terrorists. (this is all they are doing folks, they don't have the time or resources to put survellance teams on every diver certified in the last three years ) Especially if this keeps me from having to be identified by a DNA sample taken from a piece of my left big toe because this is all of me that is left. Can we stop to come to the realization that the government is not always "out to get us" but sometimes might be trying to protect us. Sure, I do not agree with everything the government is doing right now, but I do think that this is a pretty smart direction for an investigation. But of course this is just my two cents.

 

[danceswithoctopus]

See what's happening here, people? We are openly questioning the government in a public forum, without fear of repurcussions. Sure, we have a certain amount of anonymity, but we all know that it's easy to track each of us back to our computers. No one who has posted to this thread is afraid of that, whether speaking in favor of the US government or against it. Gotta love this country.

I have no objection to having my name and certification level listed in some FBI database somewhere. What really bothers me is the idea that this information is collected without a subpoena. If they have a need for the information, let 'em ask a judge. Should be easy. Doesn't take much time. And the system remains intact.

I bet if they gave the mailing list to a new discount online dive shop...not many people would have a problem with it

Now this bothers me more than giving the info to the feds. Count me among the 'not many' who have a problem with it.