First dive setup and techniques: advice needed

[EL Pistoffo]

Hi everyone, Im new to the forum though I have been reading trough it for the last few days.

My wife and will be going on a Western Caribbean cruise in September and will be diving Roatan and Grand Cayman and I will be doing underwater video for my first time.
I have been researching the subject of the GoPro underwater videography and have come to some conclusions but yet others are still unanswered to me.

My equipment plan will be a GoPro Hero 3 Black Edition (just purchased), a Amazon.com: Sealife Aquapod Underwater Monopod, Black SL913: SEALIFE: Electronics, a SRP BlurFix3 CYD dome, SanDisk Ultra microSDXC class 10 64GB card, and extra battery.

I have some experience in video editing though most of it was on adobe Premier back in the Pentium 120 days. I have since done some basic editing and format conversions. I currently have the Adobe CS5 suite and also AVS4YOU suite.

My questions or concerns are:

1.To Pro-Tune or not to Pro-Tune. This is really confusing to me. Pro-Tune mode is said to make the video look washed out at first. My understanding is that when using Pro-Tune, post color correction is necessary. Does that correcting involve just saturation, contrast and brightness adjustments? If not using Pro-Tune will the exposure, color freak out problem that I've read about occur? If so i'd rather use Pro-Tune to avoid a ruined shoot if post color editing is not incredibly difficult.

2. Is the use of the red filter necessary if shooting in Pro-Tune mode? Some have said that post color correcting can be done in place of the filter. I'm thinking that using the red-filter will result in a video that requires less post color correction.

3. I will be diving in waters between 40ft to maybe 80ft max. I am undecided on resolution and frame-rate. The popular choices by many here is 1080/30 - 1080/60 - 2.7k/25 - and a few 720/60. I'm looking for a fininshed product in 1080P to be viewed on HDTV's. I've heard 30 fps is better for light gathering and some say 60 fps is. Which is true? I'm unfamiliar with frame cropping on video which is the reason most use higher res. Which would better suit me as beginner?

4. I'm not certain how most of you film in regards to clip length. I seems like most just turn the camera on at beginning of dive and stop at end. Is that the norm? Will the GoPro battery life last the dive? I heard from another user that they filmed in shorter clips turning camera on and off. It made editing easier by avoiding watching through 45min of video. Would that affect post color correcting if done in Pro-Tune mode due varying look in different clips?

5. IS the use of the LCD screen advantageous or necessary? Trying to imagine or visualize how the video is framing or what it will look like is a new concept to me. Traditional filming is done with a real-time view. Is that a valid concern? Will filming at higher res then cropping through post editing eliminate those issues? Is such editing a pain? Is the use of the LCD detrimental to battery life as I suspect?

6. Is a buoyancy attachment a good idea for the GoPro camera such as the GoPro Floaty Backdoor - Lets your HD HERO Camera Float in Water. Does it interfere much with the handling of it underwater? Losing a camera would be a major bummer.

Sorry for the depth and the mount of questions but I like to know as much as possible when getting involved in a new project. I'm sure I will figure out more as I mess with the camera on my own. I have a couple of months till my trip so I will do some snorkeling as soon as I can to experiment though Tropical Storm Chantal is poised to ruin this weekend for me.


Any tips or pointing me in the right direction would be appreciated. In the meanwhile I will continue to research further.

Thanks

 

[fbk]

I think you will find all these questions have been answered many times over, but...

1. PT & RAW WB if you don't want colour blow outs due to unpredictable AutoWB. Will require simple adjustment in Cineform, you can even use the presets if you're really lazy. It will suck more battery and card space. Some people reported problems with 64gb cards, I would stick to 2 x 32 for redundancy also.

2. Gopro really benefits from the red filter especially in tropical water

3. Higher frame rate lets you slow down your footage a little which can be usefull if you get a clip of something that is only short or a bit shaky, it makes it more watchable without looking like full slo-mo. If there is not much light you can do some clips in 30. Stick to 1080 for everything it will mean much less editing.

4,5 If you film the whole dive you won't get 2 dives out of the battery. Especially if using the LCD, you will be lucky to get even one. Protune and higher res/fps use more battery. If you turn the camera on and off all the time you risk it locking up which may be less of an issue with latest firmware. You also risk missing a shot due to the fumbling and start up time. It is not that hard to scrub through an hour of video grabbing just the good bits and is really not that much more editing than trimming the ends of a bunch of shorter clips. You can film at 2.7k then crop but then you are limited to 30fps and you have a LOT more editing to do and need a computer with LOTS of grunt so beware. For general wide angle without the LCD, no problem, but if you want to frame an animal a bit closer up its hard to know when it is filling the frame.

6. No buoyancy needed, forget the floaty door, you don't want it blown away on the surface if you let go of it. Put a lanyard on it if you are worried about losing it. I would seriously reconsider the extendable monopod and get or make a small tray with a handle/s. I had that exact monopod and the quality is abysmal plus you will struggle to hold it steady when just filming normally. If you really want a pole to film yourself or stick into holes get a rigid one like the UK pro pole or make your own.

Everything is a tradeoff but even moreso with the Gopro. You just have to experiment and see what you are most willing to trade. I would start with 1080/60 with protune on and load some clips into cineform to get a feel of the colour editing process. Its not hard and is also rewarding bringing the clips to life if you have the time. If you want minimal editing shoot with PT off and you can use your clips straight out the camera, 90% of the time they will look awesome but you might get some that go green if you point at the sun.

All these tradeoffs plus the fact that you can't zoom or do macro are why I got rid of mine and got an LX7 instead but for its tiny size and bang for buck the gopro is hard to beat.

 

[tphelps]

Hi everyone, Im new to the forum though I have been reading trough it for the last few days.

My wife and will be going on a Western Caribbean cruise in September and will be diving Roatan and Grand Cayman and I will be doing underwater video for my first time.
I have been researching the subject of the GoPro underwater videography and have come to some conclusions but yet others are still unanswered to me.

My equipment plan will be a GoPro Hero 3 Black Edition (just purchased), a Amazon.com: Sealife Aquapod Underwater Monopod, Black SL913: SEALIFE: Electronics, a SRP BlurFix3 CYD dome, SanDisk Ultra microSDXC class 10 64GB card, and extra battery.

I have some experience in video editing though most of it was on adobe Premier back in the Pentium 120 days. I have since done some basic editing and format conversions. I currently have the Adobe CS5 suite and also AVS4YOU suite.

My questions or concerns are:

1.To Pro-Tune or not to Pro-Tune. This is really confusing to me. Pro-Tune mode is said to make the video look washed out at first. My understanding is that when using Pro-Tune, post color correction is necessary. Does that correcting involve just saturation, contrast and brightness adjustments? If not using Pro-Tune will the exposure, color freak out problem that I've read about occur? If so i'd rather use Pro-Tune to avoid a ruined shoot if post color editing is not incredibly difficult.

2. Is the use of the red filter necessary if shooting in Pro-Tune mode? Some have said that post color correcting can be done in place of the filter. I'm thinking that using the red-filter will result in a video that requires less post color correction.

3. I will be diving in waters between 40ft to maybe 80ft max. I am undecided on resolution and frame-rate. The popular choices by many here is 1080/30 - 1080/60 - 2.7k/25 - and a few 720/60. I'm looking for a fininshed product in 1080P to be viewed on HDTV's. I've heard 30 fps is better for light gathering and some say 60 fps is. Which is true? I'm unfamiliar with frame cropping on video which is the reason most use higher res. Which would better suit me as beginner?

4. I'm not certain how most of you film in regards to clip length. I seems like most just turn the camera on at beginning of dive and stop at end. Is that the norm? Will the GoPro battery life last the dive? I heard from another user that they filmed in shorter clips turning camera on and off. It made editing easier by avoiding watching through 45min of video. Would that affect post color correcting if done in Pro-Tune mode due varying look in different clips?

5. IS the use of the LCD screen advantageous or necessary? Trying to imagine or visualize how the video is framing or what it will look like is a new concept to me. Traditional filming is done with a real-time view. Is that a valid concern? Will filming at higher res then cropping through post editing eliminate those issues? Is such editing a pain? Is the use of the LCD detrimental to battery life as I suspect?

6. Is a buoyancy attachment a good idea for the GoPro camera such as the GoPro Floaty Backdoor - Lets your HD HERO Camera Float in Water. Does it interfere much with the handling of it underwater? Losing a camera would be a major bummer.

Sorry for the depth and the mount of questions but I like to know as much as possible when getting involved in a new project. I'm sure I will figure out more as I mess with the camera on my own. I have a couple of months till my trip so I will do some snorkeling as soon as I can to experiment though Tropical Storm Chantal is poised to ruin this weekend for me.


Any tips or pointing me in the right direction would be appreciated. In the meanwhile I will continue to research further.

Thanks

Congrats man! I just got my Hero3 (had the Hero2 for forever) and I love it! I dove a bunch in Utila Island and did some shark diving off of Roatan. Its awesome, you're going to love it! 82 degree water, 100 foot viz!!
I have the Aquapod and I love it! My only advice is to make sure you thoroughly clean it after diving, open it up and get the water in better the grooves. I got a piece of sand or something in the top part and had to get a new one.

Just from my own experience with cameras, I would advise against getting one 64 GB memory card. Instead get a bunch of 16GB memory cards. I had a bunch of great footage from my Hero2 on 1 SD card and it failed on me. It is good to have multiple cards so that way if something does go wrong, you dont loose everything. Also, back your data up after every day or every couple of days for that same reason.

I have the SRP Blurfix and it is sweet, I totally recommend it. My avatar pic was taken with the same setup you described. Adobe is sweet, stick with that. GoPro's Cineform Studio software sucks (or at least it doesnt work for me).

As far as your questions go:
1. I used Protune for my pictures and it turned out sweet! Play around with it while you are there. Ive only used it so far with Protune but so far I cant complain.
2. YES use your filter!
3. Play around with the settings on your trip. Do 1 dive with one setting, the next with another and compare on the computer. I dont know enough about the Hero3 to help ya there. I use 1080p at 60 FPS right now.
4. Buy extra batteries!!! A battery lasts me about 1 dive shooting continuously. My secret is the Wasabi batteries, they work great and you get 2 plus a charger for $20! Amazon.com: Wasabi Power Battery (2-Pack) and Charger for GoPro HD HERO3 and GoPro AHDBT-201, AHDBT-301: Camera & Photo
5. OMG YES!!! Buy the back screen! My shark dive at Roatan was all out of screen because my angle was wrong. I 10000000% recommend the back screen!!!
6. NO!!!! Do NOT buy the floaty! Once you get below 10 feet, the pressure makes it worthless, especially with the aquapod. Plus you will not be able to view the back screen! Abort! Abort! lol

Have fun and be safe!

 

[EL Pistoffo]

Thanks for the replies.

I've been farting around with Premiere today and man has it changed since I last used it or I just forgot. I'm just practicing with clip merging then I will experiment more with corrections.

Should I just use the raw files right off the camera straight into Premiere?

Thanks for the Wasabi Battery tip. I saw it earlier online and will be ordering.

I already starting using the 64GB card. I will be trying filming long clips to test time and card reliability. I will most likely leave camera on during dives but start and stop recordings during uneventful periods.

The LCD screen is a possibility. I need to be sure of the battery time with it. I don't want to run short but having extra batteries might solve that. I've noticed that the FOV is pretty wide so everything should get in frame without help of LCD.

 

[fbk]

I don't want to run short but having extra batteries might solve that

They won't solve it if they run out halfway through a dive, you can't change them underwater

I still have my Hero2 with the battery backpac and use it for other things. They work with the Hero3 as well, you can pick one up for $35 and it will double your battery life. Means you can't use the LCD though. Like I said... tradeoffs!

 

[EL Pistoffo]

They won't solve it if they run out halfway through a dive, you can't change them underwater

I still have my Hero2 with the battery backpac and use it for other things. They work with the Hero3 as well, you can pick one up for $35 and it will double your battery life. Means you can't use the LCD though. Like I said... tradeoffs!

Good point. I will be testing all these battery life issues soon. If I can get good video w/o LCD great. If I can't get sufficient battery life time then that battery backpac may come into play.

I'm still playing with 3 different Video editing apps....what a pain.:errrr: I need a better workflow for this.
So far my best success has been to convert and color correct (Pro-Tune preset making vid to dark though) with Cineform, output convert to mp4 then merge clips with AVS4YOU video remaker into mkv. File size is about 100MB per minute which seems fine to me for 1080P/30 Pro-Tune.

I'm having no luck with Adobe Premiere. To many format options which output too large file sizes or incompatible formats on certain media players.

Any better suggestion on video conversion/correcting/merging?

Again, thanks for the help everyone.

 

[fbk]

You don't output to MP4 with Cineform. Convert to AVI and import the AVI files into your editor. Any future adjustments to the AVI in Cineform are non-destructive and are reflected instantly in the editor... no saving or exporting required.

Then export to whatever final format you want in your editor.

 

[EL Pistoffo]

You don't output to MP4 with Cineform. Convert to AVI and import the AVI files into your editor. Any future adjustments to the AVI in Cineform are non-destructive and are reflected instantly in the editor... no saving or exporting required.

Let me see if I get right. I should convert clips to AVI in Cineform. Then import to editor like say Premiere. Then merge and correct while in Premiere. Everything good up till now. When exporting from Premiere the format options are endless and file sizes pretty large. Also my color correcting in Premiere is still horrendous.

Anyways, I will try a different video editor to correct and merge. Cineform doesn't seem to be able to merge clips. But every app I have requests an output format when completing the edits and I've been trying to find the format with best file size and play-ability while maintaining quality.

Thanks for the input. I tend to be pretty anal about details, sorry.

 

[fbk]

I can't comment on eidtors other than powerdirector which is what I use but they should all do much the same thing and your output option depends on intended use. I export to 1080/30 MP4. Youtube converts everything to 30fps anyway and some players struggle with 60.

The only thing you use Cineform for is to import the original files and convert them to AVI which are easier for editors to digest as MP4 is highly compressed. Once you have those AVI files you can delete the original compressed files that came from the GoPro. ANY time you want to use cineform to tweak colours etc just open up that AVI and adjust it. You DON'T need to export it or save it or do anything at all. If you look at the file in your editor you will see the colour adjustments reflected automatically.

The alternative is to just use an editor that imports the MP4s and do everything in the one program skipping the MP4-AVI conversion altogether but with protune footage the cineform colour correcting results seem to be better.

 

[EL Pistoffo]

I can't comment on eidtors other than powerdirector which is what I use but they should all do much the same thing and your output option depends on intended use. I export to 1080/30 MP4. Youtube converts everything to 30fps anyway and some players struggle with 60.

The only thing you use Cineform for is to import the original files and convert them to AVI which are easier for editors to digest as MP4 is highly compressed. Once you have those AVI files you can delete the original compressed files that came from the GoPro. ANY time you want to use cineform to tweak colours etc just open up that AVI and adjust it. You DON'T need to export it or save it or do anything at all. If you look at the file in your editor you will see the colour adjustments reflected automatically.

The alternative is to just use an editor that imports the MP4s and do everything in the one program skipping the MP4-AVI conversion altogether but with protune footage the cineform colour correcting results seem to be better.

So the corrections in Cineform are instant when in AVI form w/o need to export? I didn't know that. Excellent info, thanks. That saves me some trouble.

I'll just need to decide on final format once clips are merged. I'll also need to get much better with Premiere or another app for adding music and other edits but at least I'm one step closer.