First pool dive with hp steel 100's horizontal trim issues

[CamG]

Greetings Stano.
Pool time is awesome to sort out the workings of your rig.
I have found some tanks work better for me and others require trim weights / adjustment of bands.
I have good luck with LP 85's, but dive AL 80's with 3lb trim on bands, LP 95's, LP 77's with cave fills require no trim weight but band placement is pretty low to get them to trim out.
I would pop off the tank boots and move the bands as low as possible to see if it helped at all.
I have done just that to play in the pool and see what works and or was dive able.

The key is to have fun and try different combos till you find the right one.
I worked with a Razor clone for 8 pool hrs last winter.
You would be amazed at how many different things I tried to just see what was possible.
In the end I always carried it in my bag and sure enough twice last season pulled it out and let others ride the Nomad.
I could use low tanks steel or AL and dive actually quite well dry or wet.
To have more experience and or tools to dive never hurts!

CamG Keep Diving....Keep Training....Keep Learning!

 

[Dive-aholic]

Fins are new too... I should have mentioned that. I will try my old fins Sunday and post back.

What brand fins do you have, both old and new?

 

[stano]

The new are Hollis F1 and the old ones are Scuba Pro twin jets (I know, I know, lol).

 

[Dive-aholic]

The fins won't be the issue. The Hollis and Jets are almost the same weight. If you like that style get a set of OMS Slipstreams.

 

[cavemn]

The fins won't be the issue. The Hollis and Jets are almost the same weight. If you like that style get a set of OMS Slipstreams.

This is not entirely true Rob. I wouldn't contradict you, except that I have had this exact same setup with a slightly different tank.

Take off the tank boots. I switched back to OMS Slipstream fins. I found the F1s to be very heavy. I experimented with the DiveRites too. I think they are even better when diving wet.

I have also heavily modified my JT to move the bag lower towards my hips. If your buttplate is already low, meaning your fingers can barely reach your rails or not at all, this is not an option for you. The straps by default keep the unit really high on your back. At minimum add a knot on one side on each of the bungees. I found my tanks hanging low in the front with Edd's bungee system as I received it.

Before you replace fins try this. I replaced cam bands with pipe clamps. This is not necessary, but the adjustment will work the same with either bands or clamps. I use two 316SS on each tank for redundancy. 5mil diamond braid for the leash and an XL bolt snap clip. Place the cam band or pipe clamps just above the rounded edge of the bottom of the tank, maybe 3/4 of an inch. Position the leash so it exits toward the bottom of the tank.

Make a test dive. If you are still too buoyant in your shoulders I would replace either the tanks or the JT with an XT. The Razor does not support 50 lbs of lift, maybe 43 at best. Another good option is Edd's SMS conversion. If you find you are top heavy now, then adjust the cam band forward towards the valves 1/2 inch max each time until you trim out. Adjusting the bands on your tanks will be the best solution. Otherwise, you will have to adjust the Nomad every time you switch tanks.

 

[Dive-aholic]

This is not entirely true Rob. I wouldn't contradict you, except that I have had this exact same setup with a slightly different tank.

What's not entirely true? Hollis and Jet fins are pretty similar in weight. Slipstreams are much lighter. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're referring to?

 

[cavemn]

What's not entirely true? Hollis and Jet fins are pretty similar in weight. Slipstreams are much lighter. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're referring to?

Two things. Fins CAN be an issue IMHO and you don't necessarily need trim weight. I was responding to the entire thread. In this particular instance I have first hand experience with most of the same equipment.

I don't like the F1s because they are heavier. They are not a bad design. I just prefer my slipstreams for my setup.

It seems the default response to trim issues is add weight. I had shoulder trim weight on my Nomad original at one time because I was told that was what you do. I found later that having the tanks and equipment adjusted properly eliminated the trim weight. When you start carrying two or more stages the extra weight makes a difference.

 

[CWSWine]

What's not entirely true? Hollis and Jet fins are pretty similar in weight. Slipstreams are much lighter. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're referring to?

The OP said he has Twin Jets Pro, aren't those ScubaPro split fins and I believe those are neutral or just slightly negative. I have owned a set of Jets and have two sets of F1 and agree those are wash.

 

[Dive-aholic]

Two things. Fins CAN be an issue IMHO and you don't necessarily need trim weight. I was responding to the entire thread. In this particular instance I have first hand experience with most of the same equipment.

I don't like the F1s because they are heavier. They are not a bad design. I just prefer my slipstreams for my setup.

It seems the default response to trim issues is add weight. I had shoulder trim weight on my Nomad original at one time because I was told that was what you do. I found later that having the tanks and equipment adjusted properly eliminated the trim weight. When you start carrying two or more stages the extra weight makes a difference.

Yes, fins can be the issue, but he hadn't mentioned a change in them so going on the premise that the only difference in gear was cylinders fins would not be the issue. I agree, trim weight isn't needed. I've taught dozens of divers sidemount diving over the past few years. I rarely start with trim weights. In many cases I do end up adding trim weight, though. I've personally tried with and without and it does make a difference. I use 4lbs of trim weight myself. I also dive with 108s and 121s plus 2 stages and 2 deco cylinders and that additional 4lbs doesn't make much of a difference. But swimming with my fins pointing down does make a difference. I've found that some people prefer to use an air bubble to control their trim. That was the concept in the way the Nomad was originally designed and is also the concept in the way the Hollis rig has been designed. I just don't like relying on an air bubble for my trim because when that wing fails (and I have had mine fail) your trim is shot.

The OP said he has Twin Jets Pro, aren't those ScubaPro split fins and I believe those are neutral or just slightly negative. I have owned a set of Jets and have two sets of F1 and agree those are wash.

I missed that. Honestly, I don't know the buoyancy characteristics of the SP splits, but the Hollis fins are definitely heavier if the SP splits are neutral.

 

[Jax]

I missed that. Honestly, I don't know the buoyancy characteristics of the SP splits, but the Hollis fins are definitely heavier if the SP splits are neutral.

The Hollis F1s weigh the same as the SP Jets (I weighed them). The TwinJets would be floaters, but the spring straps make them about neutral. (I have those, too.)