Force Fins vs Jetfins - tek diving and all the kicks

[scubadada]

The proper flutter kick for ANY fin in similar to the technique taught for a competition crawl kick - Force Fins are no exception. The problem is lots of people like to use a kick from the knee or a "bicycle" kick which absolutely will not work with Force Fins. I would say that when you are fighting a current or wanting to go fast - this competitive type flutter kick kick is the best alternative. The most effective kick for Force Fins is almost like a slow "dolphin" kick, like you use with a butterfly stroke, but one leg at a time. Force Fins were designed to mimic the action of a fishes tail and and work best when they get a hard initial flick (to load up the fin) and gentle follow through (to let the rebound finish the propulsion). This action uses the hip, abs and a little quads and results in minimal joint stress but moves you forward at a pace that is more than adequate.

By the way - I am not "selling" Force Fins, I have no horse in that race. I am only a very satisfied user, who has a great appreciation for the science behind them and I tend to want to pass on knowledge when I find "a better mouse trap".

Dive Safely

I was a competitive swimmer from the age of 4 through high school and also played water polo. Technique is not my problem. Sorry, but I'm not interested in owning multiple pair of very expensive fins depending on how I will be diving and kicking. I'm glad Force Fins are good for the minority of divers that use them. The majority of us will never have the opportunity to use the full range of products, so cannot comment on their overall utility.

 

[TN Traveler]

I was a competitive swimmer from the age of 4 through high school and also played water polo. Technique is not my problem. Sorry, but I'm not interested in owning multiple pair of very expensive fins depending on how I will be diving and kicking. I'm glad Force Fins are good for the minority of divers that use them. The majority of us will never have the opportunity to use the full range of products, so cannot comment on their overall utility.

You don't need multiple pairs of Force Fins - just pick the one model that fits your style of diving. If you have the leg strength (like if you dive Jets) to handle a pair of Extra or Excellerating Force Fins in Tan Delta, they would be all you need. If you need a pair that will work with a little less leg strength - try the Hockey Fins. If all you do is putter/flutter kick around shallow reefs - then Originals or Pros would be the proper fin. You only need one - but select the RIGHT one!!!

By the way - we ran in very parallel worlds - I also swan competitively and until I started having hip/knee problems, I only used a pair of Excellerating Force Fins.

 

[dmaziuk]

If you have the leg strength (like if you dive Jets) to handle a pair of Extra or Excellerating Force Fins in Tan Delta, they would be all you need.

Yes but the difference is they're $395 (available, not tan delta) whiskers not included. Jets are less than half that. It's a great business model if you sell to big gubmint procurement bucks, otherwise maybe not so much.

(I freely admit to having an ulterior motive for the b*tching: I have narrow feet and FF's open toe pocket is so far the is the only thing that fits me well -- I just don't have the budget.

I also wonder how much of FF's reduced strain and improved efficiency is due to the fact that they simply fit. Because you can push your foot in to where you have a very nice solid contact with the metatarsals without pressing or squeezing anywhere else. Unlike the "one size fits even the widest foot" -- read "doesn't really fit anyone well" -- toeboxes on most open-heel fins.)

 

[eelnoraa]

Office topic, what exactly is "tan delta" really?

 

[TN Traveler]

Yes but the difference is they're $395 (available, not tan delta) whiskers not included. Jets are less than half that. It's a great business model if you sell to big gubmint procurement bucks, otherwise maybe not so much.

(I freely admit to having an ulterior motive for the b*tching: I have narrow feet and FF's open toe pocket is so far the is the only thing that fits me well -- I just don't have the budget.

I also wonder how much of FF's reduced strain and improved efficiency is due to the fact that they simply fit. Because you can push your foot in to where you have a very nice solid contact with the metatarsals without pressing or squeezing anywhere else. Unlike the "one size fits even the widest foot" -- read "doesn't really fit anyone well" -- toeboxes on most open-heel fins.)

Most of the reduced strain is due to the foot pocket design and the fact that there are sufficient sizes so it fits most feet properly (especially if you use the custom inserts). Force Fins are more expensive because they are HAND made, limited production in the USA - they are not turned out by the thousands in a Chinese Factory using injection molding machines (a few sizes fits all??). As far as efficiency - the blade designs and materials used are matched and engineered to provide the properties desired. All this costs $$$

---------- Post added April 14th, 2015 at 10:43 AM ----------

Office topic, what exactly is "tan delta" really?

Tan Delta is a high rebound polyurethane that returns a greater percentage of the energy that is used to flex the material.

There are now actually two grades of Tan Delta (much like there are two grades of regular urethane in the Originals and Pros). The older material which has been used in the Extra, Excellerating and Flying Force Fins is normally slightly translucent - it takes a little harder kick flex it and returns more of the energy (percentage wise) so you can move easier in heavier currents or if you really want the extra speed. These blades tend to be a little thinner to allow the material to flex. The new Tan Delta material was introduced for the Hockey Fin and has even high rebound but it is so flexible that you can bend the blade in half, back on itself, and it will not break (just returns to its previous shape). This allows a slightly thicker blade to provide even greater snap back - adding to the fin efficiency. When you watch the way fins made of this material move, they really mimic the flex of a dolphin's tail.

I keep hoping that Bob will modify the blade of the Excellerating Force Fin so it can be made from the new Tan Delta material.

 

[TN Traveler]

Here is a brief video that will show you more about what I am talking about with the "new" Tan Delta Material (these are Hockey Fins)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HSVq1qMigw

Try this with your own fins only at your own risk.

Here is another video that might help your understanding of Force Fins

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf2lm5PUV_E

 

[ams511]

Office topic, what exactly is "tan delta" really?

I did a quick Google search and I don't think "tan delta" is an actual material but rather a measurement. Tan delta is an abbreviated form of the term—Tangent of Delta. The tan delta quantifies the way in which a material absorbs and disperses energy. It expresses the out-of-phase time relationship between an impact force and the resultant force that is transmitted to the supporting body. - See more at: What is the tan delta for damping material?-sorbothane/#sthash.uh5i4E6n.dpuf

 

[TN Traveler]

In scientific terms you are correct - but I think the question above was an inquiry as to the use of the term "Tan Delta" as regards to the materials used in some of Force Fin's products. It was used originally to describe the material that absorbed and then re-released energy from the downward kick at a higher rate than the previously used urethanes. Definitely a "corruption" of the word.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

The translucent red fin looks a bit like skate board wheel material.
If so, I think the tan delta fins are molded.
If this is the case, the cost of making the mold for the fin would explain the cost.

Molds aren't cheap.
They require a lot of time and effort to make.

 

[TN Traveler]

ALL Force Fins are molded and molds ARE expensive. Most of the molds for.the higher end fins, especially those made using Tan Delta materials, are one of a kind. These fins are made to order. All Force Fins are hand poured because the small batches of urethane need to be processed quickly after mixing. Then they are individually finished (edges trimmed, polished and straps added). Made in the USA by American craftsmen.

This is not an inexpensive process - not like pushing out hundreds/thousands a day from a press in China. High end fins have always been signed by Bob and numbered.