Freeflowing regs

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Always wondered why they don't put a shut-off valve where the hose goes into the second stage so you can shut it off if it free-flows.

My guess is because it will not do anything.... If the 1st stage is locked you will get your octo flowing or another hose: BCD inflator, dry suit inflator or the LP hose blowing up.

One of the scenarios can be shutting up the main hose , the octo starts leaking, shutting up the octo, the BCD hose leak BCD inflation and the client becomes deco patient.
 
Thanks to all for your input.

My OW class was in 1986, so I was unable to recall the details of the procedure for breathing from FF regs. I didn't dive for many years after that OW cert, but am now back into diving pretty heavily. I did take a refresher course in 2002 and am currently working on Rescue.

I read somewhere about a woman who had not dived in several years, went on a charter, did a 50ft second dive, had a free flow, tried to CESA and died. It got me thinking......
 
My buddy's tank lasted at least 6 minutes free flowing so you do not need to do CESA, you can easily breath from a reg even if you take it out put your mouth above the hole say couple of inches and breath catching the air stream.
 
I was wondering about the mechanics of a freeflowing regulator, and should this happen, how to overcome it.

Does the freeflow happen at the 1st or 2nd stages, or both, simultaneously? Is there any way to tell the difference when it happens?

It can happen to both, 1st stages could stick open, but this is really rare and normally shows up immediately after rebuild, more often you might see IP creep from a leaking HP seat in the 1st stage, in this case, you won't get a free flow, but a burp of air from the downstream overpressure valve (aka 2nd stage).

The mechanics of a 2nd stage freeflow is pretty simple, essentially the second stage works as a demand valve. You create demand by inhaling, this applies a differential pressure across the diaphragm, which then moves and pushed the lever which opens the 2nd stage valve and feeds you air. In a non-failure mode of freeflow, the diaphragm is moved by water flowing on the diaphragm which is enough to open the valve and of course since most high performance regulator have a venturi to reduce the work of breathing, this venturi can open the valve further making the freeflow worse. To correct this, turn the regulator mouthpiece down or stick your thumb in the mouthpiece which will put positive pressure on the diaphragm closing the valve and stopping the freeflow.

if that doesn't stop the freeflow you probably have a failure, as far as failure are concerned this is a VERY GOOD THING, its referred to as a fail-safe, as the reg fails to a safe condition, giving you more air not less. If you have this type of failure you need to take it to a qualified service shop for repair.

If it's the primary reg diaphram that is stuck open, can't you switch to your octo and ascend?

best method is to breathe off the freeflowing reg, the air is coming out anyway, use it as you ascend. its a good skill to practice, by holding down the purge button. just don't practice long as air will deplete quickly.


I've read that free flows happen more in colder water. Is this true?

this is called freezing, it occurs in cold water due to adiabatic cooling of expanding air, the colder temps can freeze any moisture in the air (tank) and hold the valve open causing a freeflow. the best solution to that is shut off the air, wait about 15 seconds for the reg to warm and slowly open the tank valve, it should fix itself. To prevent it, always get your air from reputable sources, and minimize use of your inflator or other high air demand items. This is often a practiced skill in ice diving courses.

If it's your 1st stage, do both your primary and octo free flow? What then? I know there is a way to breathe off a freeflowing reg, but I'd like some insight into how, etc.

most likely it will only freeflow off your primary, not the octo. This is because the primary is generally tuned to better performance, which includes a lower cracking pressure, which means it will freeflow first, once the pressure is relieved the other reg is unlikely to also freeflow.
As for breathing off a freeflowing reg, please consult your training book, this is a basic skill that is taught during OW, and is a required performance skill for PADI, so I assume it is in most other agencies as well.

This has not happened to me yet, and I get my reg serviced yearly. But just in case......

Thanks in advance,
Lisa

As far as someone dieing during a CESA, well I am not a forensic scientist nor do I have facts of the case. But, assuming a diver is within their no-decompression profiles it is a conservative factor built in the dive tables to allow for a CESA safely. But, if you don't exhale appropriately during the ascent you will embolize and that will kill you. Remember, CESA= normal ascent rate, keyword being "controlled".
 
Yes, and keep in mind that a free-flowing reg will drain a tank in about a minute. And that's only if it's completely full at 3000 psi. To be prepared for a freeflow, you need a close buddy or a redundant air source, such as a pony bottle (not a Spare Air).

A freeflow does not have to drain a tank at the maximum flow rate. It is very possible that a freeflow will provide several minutes worth of air. A good buddy is always good to have, but if you can't find your good buddy, keep a close eye on your SPG and there is no need to CESA until you are REALLY out of air.
 
Lot's of good answers here but I like to try and make things simple...which isn't always easy.

Free flow’s are directly related to how the regulator is "tuned". Your regulator works at a manufacturers recommended setting and this could range from 125psi to 155psi depending on the regulator.

I have two high performance regulators tuned differently. My primary free flows almost every time it hits the water when it's out of my mouth, my secondary (same type of reg) is "tuned" back a bit and never free flows. This is MY preference - I LIKE how amazingly easy my main reg works, and my alternate is backed off just a few PSI to make sure it doesn't spew air every time I move and the water pressure affects the reg and it's important to note that both regulators are within the manufacturers range - I did not go below or above the operating range.

Your LDS can help you "tune" your regulator to what you like. They can adjust it, within reason and tolerances, up or down a bit to help get rid of the free flow if you'd like; it’s all about how ‘sensitive’ to subtle pressure changes your regulator reacts to.

A free flow due to some kind of failure or malfunction - completely different issue.
 
you should be able to reach the tank valve by turning it off and on you can reduce the amount of ff and give your self alot of time to surface (something we dont get to teach) but it works.
dive and learn you will find there are many ways to skin a catfish.
 

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