From BCD to BPW: The Evolution

[uncfnp]

I have a feeling you're going to ditch the shoulder pads once you use it in the water. Trying on the set up on land is completely different; the weighting load is almost opposite. With just webbing, the harness tends to 'disappear' in the water, giving you a very nice clutter-free feeling.

I use a slightly lighter weight webbing for the harness on my freedom plate than I do with my standard plate that I use almost exclusively for doubles these days. There's a decent online webbing store, strapworks.com, that has some good strong-but-flexible 2" webbing.

I use keepers at the waistbelt slots, I don't want tugging on the waistbelt to affect the shoulder straps. I have them adjusted where I want them, meaning fairly loose, and I want them to stay that way. In the water it's nothing like wearing a backpack.

I think you'll be very happy diving with the freedom plate and the small oxycheq wing. I use the 18lb wing even with a HP100 and 5mm suit, no lead, it works out great. With a 3mm and AL80, I put 6lbs on the cambands and I'm good. My freedom plate is one of the early aluminum ones.

The reason for the shoulder pads is that the webbing, it is very stiff, cuts into my shoulders as it angles around the arm. This is also the reason that I am leaning toward a chest strap, to pull the webbing away from the armpits. But as you say, it will all feel different in the water. Since the pads are just velcroed, it will but no problem to remove them without otherwise disturbing the harness.

My backplate does not have holes for sex bolts. It makes it a little awkward to carry when not on a tank, the plate pulls away from the wing. Is drilling a hole in the upper portion of the plate feasible or is there a better solution? I hate the idea of altering the plate.

 

[halocline]

Try the softer webbing, I'll bet you'll like it better. It's a little more like the old-style vintage webbing, and seems to fit the style of the plate better than the very stiff resin-impregnated stuff you typically find on standard backplates. This is especially the case with the way the shoulder straps originate from the center.

I don't miss having the wing not bolted to the plate, in fact I like it because all I need to do is un-thread the cam bands and the whole thing is apart for packing and storage. It doesn't bother me if I have to sort of line up the wing when attaching it to a tank. You could try carrying it by one of the cambands instead of the harness, that might help it stay in place. Another idea would be to glue a small strip of velcro somewhere on the wing and on the plate so you can just stick them together.

 

[divad]

This is also the reason that I am leaning toward a chest strap, to pull the webbing away from the armpits.

That would be devolution toward a "BCD."

 

[uncfnp]

The best way I found is to split the PVC pipe lengthwise with a hacksaw, spread the kerf with a screwdriver, and force the D-ring in. Then smear a little PVC cement in the kerf and clamp for half an hour. Gray PVC conduit probably looks a little better than white, but you only need about 4" so whatever scrap you have is fine.

I found some gray 1/2 PVC around the house and tried it out. This is a very slick trick. Thanks.

I use a slightly lighter weight webbing for the harness on my freedom plate than I do with my standard plate that I use almost exclusively for doubles these days. There's a decent online webbing store, strapworks.com, that has some good strong-but-flexible 2" webbing.

The website shows several varieties of webbing. Which do you use?

 

[Akimbo]

I have a feeling you're going to ditch the shoulder pads once you use it in the water...

I think you are probably right, maybe unless the rig is used with a dive-skin only. I have given up trying to second-guess what works best for the ladies though. Their sensibilities and body-mechanics are different enough to skew most of my pre-conceived notions.

...I use a slightly lighter weight webbing for the harness on my freedom plate than I do with my standard plate that I use almost exclusively for doubles these days. There's a decent online webbing store, strapworks.com, that has some good strong-but-flexible 2" webbing. ...

I was recently surprised and disappointed when helping a friend set up her new Freedom Contour with the soft webbing from Strapsworks. It jammed-up with the rollers and was really limp when wet, which made it difficult to don in a wetsuit. It is a great choice for a rig used in warm water against bare skin or a Tee shirt that doesn't use the rollers though.

The reason for the shoulder pads is that the webbing, it is very stiff, cuts into my shoulders as it angles around the arm. This is also the reason that I am leaning toward a chest strap, to pull the webbing away from the armpits. But as you say, it will all feel different in the water. ...

Have you tried the harness while wearing your wet or drysuit? It makes a huge difference to comfort. It is important that the BP/W be comfortable out of the water as well. A lot of problems caused by stiff webbing disappear in a wetsuit, even a 3mm. My suggestion would be to start with the minimal setup you think will suite you and try it out in a pool before adding anything. Less is better and is less likely to cloud your perception of things that can be improved.

I would be surprised if you need a chest strap, especially with the ability to tighten the shoulder straps. The Freedom Plate's shoulder straps radiate from the center-top so are less inclined to sluff-off your shoulder. Shoulder straps on a standard doubles plate are about 5" apart, center-center, so a chest strap is more necessary on a person with narrow shoulders. This may not be enough for a small frame person, but I would verify the need in the water before adding one.

...My backplate does not have holes for sex bolts. It makes it a little awkward to carry when not on a tank, the plate pulls away from the wing. Is drilling a hole in the upper portion of the plate feasible or is there a better solution? I hate the idea of altering the plate.

My friend had two holes drilled in her Freedom Plate for the wing because optimum alignment to the plate was difficult for her. I suggested using ¼-20 flat-head screws with a brad-hole T-nut instead of sex bolts. It worked very nicely.

It does take some experience and the right tool to drill and countersink stainless though. Ideally, you want a drill press set to a low speed, coolant, and a cobalt drill. Any small automotive machine shop can do it for you for a reasonable price. However, I suggest you make a few dives first to find the best position for you.

To my surprise, she wanted her wing to attach much lower relative to the plate than expected. The inflated wing in the "typical" position hit the back of her head. We didn't have to modify the wing (an Oxycheq Mach V), but it had to be pushed down as far as the slots allowed. At least one screw to hold the wing in the sweet-spot is very helpful to ensure it is set up right every time.

The positive side of not bolting the wing to the plate is it is a little easier to clean and pack. With a little practice you may find your wing settles into the best place every time. I would only drill holes if it is awkward to line up.

 

[lowviz]

...//... split the PVC pipe lengthwise with a hacksaw, spread the kerf with a screwdriver, and force the D-ring in. Then smear a little PVC cement in the kerf and clamp for half an hour. ...//...

Slick trick.

Dennis, that tailpiece is friggin gorgeous! Homemade? ...//...

I had Fred Tagge cut those out when he was cutting and bending my own design (custom) BP, I do the time-intensive finish work. See pic. The idea came from Edd Sorenson, he has a nice way to sling travel gas. I use the tailpiece for my pony, travel gas, and upline or just hooking both thumbs through the side rings and drifting when I'm travelling light...

I could see needing one of those.

Quite a few people have commented on it. I'm looking for somebody who wants to make and sell them. I'll gladly give them the dimensioned drawing for free...

...//... I use keepers at the waistbelt slots, I don't want tugging on the waistbelt to affect the shoulder straps. I have them adjusted where I want them, meaning fairly loose, and I want them to stay that way. ...//...

I like to yank on my waistbelt to get it snug and absolutely hate it when that misadjusts my shouder straps. I added the keepers to the plate itself, four slots, not two. See pic.

 

[Akimbo]

Slick trick...

Thanks, but I didn't invent the idea. This particular design was not only dumb-luck, but was inspired by the plastic contoured "pack packs" of the 1960s and 70s. I was still using one of the blow-molded packs from the 1980s when I saw Eric"s Freedom Plate here on Scubaboard. Hmmm, let's see; stainless steel, supports two cam bands, and more contoured than the blow-molded pack I was using. The choice was a no-brainer.

The straps pulled though a little harder than the other packs I have used for decades so it was a minor refinement in my mind. I was a little dumbfounded when I learned that everybody didn't adjust their straps this way -- in addition to all the condemnation from DIR evangelists here on Scubaboard. The funny part is Halcyon offers rollers for their backplates.

Cinch Quick-adjust Harness | Halcyon

This roller design was one of those "quick & dirty" prototypes to test a concept that turned out to be a "keeper". I started with two pieces of pipe stuck between the webbing and slots hoping they would stay in long enough to try out in the shop. They stayed in barely long enough to verify the diameter was about right before falling on the shop floor.

OK, the next step was a piece of wire through the pipe and around the webbing. The wire got sucked into the slots... bummer.

I noticed a D-Ring while rummaging for something that would work better than wire. I slit the pipe, forced the D-ring in, and laced it in. Wow this worked great! Now all I had to do was find a more elegant solution than the D-rings. A day or two latter it dawned on me that the D-rings would actually be useful so this kluge-prototype became the finished article. Funny how stuff works out.

 

[Akimbo]

uncfnp

I looked at the photos in your OP, and I think your upper straps could be laced better, especially for a small frame. My plate is stripped-down for some experiments adapting it to doubles so I laced it with some soft webbing for a photo.

The idea is to use the upper slot to keep the straps more tightly guided. DIR style plates designed for doubles route straps over the top of the plate from the back, but the old-school plastic plates follow the lacing pattern in the attached photo.

 

[uncfnp]

uncfnp

I looked at the photos in your OP, and I think your upper straps could be laced better, especially for a small frame. My plate is stripped-down for some experiments adapting it to doubles so I laced it with some soft webbing for a photo.

The idea is to use the upper slot to keep the straps more tightly guided. DIR style plates designed for doubles route straps over the top of the plate from the back, but the old-school plastic plates follow the lacing pattern in the attached photo.
View attachment 174105

I wove it over the top originally because I thought that might help pull the plate toward my back and counter the weight of the tank pulling it away. I had already switched the harness back over to the continuos webbing so I took a closer look and you are right. With the angle the webbing exits the slots, the webbing woven through the slot as in your diagram sits much smoother on the back.

i also tried the continuous webbing with my 3mm and that helps but it still digs into my arms. It's probably a combination of my short torso and relatively narrow shoulders. As much as I really want to prefer the single piece version, I love the simplicity of it, I'm still not convinced.

Pool time was previously not an option with the LDS but that shop was recently replaced with a new business in another location and I think new owners. I will check with them after the New Year and see if it's possible. Then I could get a much more accurate feel for each harness.

 

[Akimbo]

...i also tried the continuous webbing with my 3mm and that helps but it still digs into my arms. It's probably a combination of my short torso and relatively narrow shoulders...

Not sure I understand. Is it the webbing on the shoulders, under the arm, or both that is uncomfortable?

This is really "old school", but might spark a creative idea. The earliest tank harness were simple 1" cotton webbing with some 1½-2" wide pieces of webbing sewn to the shoulder area to spread the weight. They attached directly to metal bands -- no backpack. We are talking Sea Hunt days here.

Since you have an industrial sewing machine; there is nothing to prevent you from mixing hard and soft webbing and widths for that matter. What if you used 2" hard or soft webbing over the shoulders, switched to 1-1½" soft webbing under the arms, and then 2" hard webbing through the rollers for the belly band? You could sew directly or transition with D-rings. With a little more effort you could lose the rollers and screw on rounded pieces of low-friction plastic like UHMWPE, which I "suspect" that soft webbing will slide over without jamming.

I am the first to say simple is better, but you have to meet the minimum threshold of comfort. I attached an image of a buckle that has been around since at least World War I and works really well on soft webbing. It may be useful if you need shoulder adjustment and a release.

Imersion Inox Buckle. Accessories Belts, Scubastore.com, buy, offers, dive.

Let's face it; there isn't much in the diving industry that is well engineered for females, let alone women below the 40 percentile in height. I will be working with my friend with the Freedom Plate the first week in January and will let you know if anything useful comes to mind.