Full face mask with a GAS SWITCH BLOCK..

[tbone1004]

and that's the bull**** kool-aid that the GUE/UTD followers have drank by the gallon and don't know how to use their brains and think about it.

There are a LOT of differences in principle, and detail. The isolation manifold for the Z-system is a needle valve, identical to the valves on your scuba tanks, the switch blocks use ballcocks, the same ones that are used in high pressure oil and gas lines and are very reliable and secure, there are differences in how and why you would want to use each type of valve, but that doesn't make one better than the other, just different for different purposes.

UTD puts all of the low pressure distribution in a non isolated area on top of the one in the first stage. You have all of the o-rings on the first stage, plus all of the hoses, so extra failure points there. With a switch block you are only adding the switching block, which again, are used every day in every sort of application imaginable, including commercial diving applications where they are under much more stress than any recreational profile.

If you want to talk about minimalism, remove your long hose, remove your SPG's, remove your power inflator hoses. Orally inflate your drysuit and wing, buddy breathe off one one regulator, and use J-valves instead of K-valves with SPG's. That's the only way dive truly "minimalist". Or hell, better yet, just baretank breathe, that'll remove all of the above failure points that you are adding to make the dive safer and more comfortable. FFM's can make dives safer for many divers, ice diving becomes less physically traumatic and risky for the divers because less skin is exposed to the water, they add safety in important diving missions where communication is necessary. If they made sense for everyone, then everyone would be using them, they don't, that isn't the point. The point is that if you feel that you would benefit from having one, then you need to understand that potential failure points and make a calculated decision.

Second stage failures, o-ring failures, valve failures are all very uncommon during a dive, what is common is a first stage failure. A switch block adds a couple of quick disconnects, again used every day in critical life support applications, a ball cock, again used every day, and adds the safety for the diver to be able to connect a second bottle in the case of a first stage failure, or switch decompression bottles without having to expose himself to the environment, allows communication back to surface support or other dive teams in areas where visibility is extremely low or has the potential to blow out and touch contact isn't an option. Lots of pro's, lot's of con's, but don't bash something that is mission critical for some, and simply more comfortable for others.

You add more failure points by diving sidemount than you do in backmount, but you made that calculated decision, and decided that the pro's outweighed the con's, same can be said for diving FFM's with switch blocks.

 

[MSargeant]

Ocean reef's FFM switch block looks nice and simple, and is nothing like a Z-system. Erik Brown/any of the Team Blue Immersion Dahab group would be a good one to talk to, as well as Brett Hemphill of Karst Underwater Research.

 

[Razorista]

and that's the bull**** kool-aid that the GUE/UTD followers have drank by the gallon and don't know how to use their brains and think about it.

That's new I have been accuses of many things, but DIR

There are a LOT of differences in principle, and detail...

The principle is: if you can do without it, it stays dry.

...every day in every sort of application imaginable, including commercial diving applications where...

...where fatal accidents never happen and training and education are 'just average'?

If you want to talk about minimalism, remove your long hose,

People do that, you know.
The only reason it is there is backwards or better backmount compatibility.
Pure sidemount teams do not need them and often do not use them (a pure sm team is a rare thing, though).

...remove your SPG's, remove your power inflator hoses.

One of my biggest idols is a local commercial diver who always asks people around him things roughly similar to why people have that failure prone and useless amulet on every tank (when he is in a joking mood and he was most of the time I met him).
Hates ffm and always uses really conventional masks and normal regulators on landlocked tanks or even carries them tucked under an arm without any mounting at all for his tasks.

Orally inflate your drysuit and wing,

First thing unnecessary, second one routine (I do so most of the time when diving with a single tank).

buddy breathe off one one regulator,

Now that would be stupid, wouldn't it?
Easy though.
Diving with a experienced freediver or diver in only a bcd or drysuit and breathing one of your sidemounted tanks can be a lot of fun.

and use J-valves instead of K-valves with SPG's.

K-valves are more modern, but still more minimalist in construction. For the SPG, look upwards three paragraphs.

That's the only way dive truly "minimalist".

No, that was 'not thinking straight', sorry :kiss2:

The point is that if you feel that you would benefit from having one, then you need to understand that potential failure points and make a calculated decision.

There, we agree completely.

...failures are all very uncommon during a dive,

I know of more than a dozen occasions with close contacts and buddys and witnessed two occasions where redundant systems failed completely because of unconnected o-ring, hose and second stage failures occurring in short sequence.
Everything Steve mentioned in his 'regulator of doom' description in a video I had seen at that time at least once happen close by, diving less than three years.

what is common is a first stage failure.

Not in my experience and I also had a few first stages 'blow up' around me.
It is the most uncommon failure in my experience. Could be a local thing, I 'never' saw someone diving a first stage that was not high quality and EN250 certified at minimum (the ones that failed me personally where 'US Navy approved').

...but don't bash something that is mission critical for some, and simply more comfortable for others.

I don't 'bash'! I never would do a thing like that.

You add more failure points by diving sidemount than you do in backmount,...

Added redundancy is not identical to adding failure points. Double a remote risk, increase overall security. The switchblock does not do that.

 

[tbone1004]

The point is that with proper care and maintenance they are very safe and reliable and if you have to or want to dive sidemount and need or want a FFM, they are the only real solution to diving like this and are also very, and you take that calculated risk when you choose to dive that configuration. They are also required when doing decompression diving with FFM's.

If you can do without it, it stays dry is not a good mentality, because you yourself don't follow it, nor does anyone I know of that dives, and nor should they. Back to bare tank breathing without a mask or fins.

No matter how much experience you do or don't have with regulator failures, IP creep is the #1 most common true failure of equipment. Hose connections coming undone, or people not replacing all of the O-rings on their hoses during annual service *cause for most of those failures btw*, is not equipment failure, it's operator error and I am just as guilty of it as anyone else, read ball swivel failure due to not double checking it was tight during predive checks.

Sidemount adds no more redundancy than backmount, increases diver comfort and overall safety by moving everything to a point that is visible and easy to diagnose, though that obviously didn't help you with your hose failures which I am still baffled how you didn't see that during predive checks and makes me skeptical of any training that you did receive because while you preach all of the minimalist principals and all of the predive checks you are clearly complacent in checking your own equipment because there is no effing way in hell that you were diving in conditions where you couldn't see the 4 inches required to diagnose a leak properly....

 

[Razorista]

Agreed, but an advantage of using sidemount is that (almost) nothing can go wrong at all! I would not want to deny myself that benefit.

---------- Post added December 18th, 2014 at 10:45 PM ----------

...help you with your hose failures...

Did help, since even the total failure proved to be no problem at all (I don't know why I even bother anymore).

which I am still baffled how you didn't see that during predive checks

likewise
I still assume there has to have been no visible indication I might have overlooked and the problem only occurred at low tank pressure and at least a few feet of depth. Might never know though.

and makes me skeptical of any training that you did receive because

I am a lot more sceptically of my training than you could ever be :blinking:
People I dive with seldom are, that's enough for me - or more than enough, because I am always overestimated.

while you preach all of the minimalist principals

not preach, quote
Every 'great diver' from Hogarth to Bogaerts

and all of the predive checks you are clearly complacent in checking your own equipment

I am and always admit that to people I dive with as a precaution.
However, since I started to 'give a f***', I never had equipment fail me again with any effect on the dive plan, even if trying to provoke multiple failures.

One of the best puns I ever heard regarding my diving style translates roughly as:
I am so forgetful, last week it took me an hour at fifteen feet to clear my head enough to remember I had forgotten the tanks in the car.

because there is no effing way in hell that you were diving in conditions where you couldn't see the 4 inches required to diagnose a leak properly....

No effing way? come for a visit
I can offer you lakes guaranteeing zero-visibility at certain depth at certain times of day or season.
When I can see my own arms for more than a moment I do not log 'zero-visibility' and could do so a few times.
I once dropped my instructors light in a little more than ankle-deep water (about 30W, switched on, of course) and we where searching for an hour afterwards

Example? Find the diver in that picture - distance: touch. I logged visibility as 'excellent' on that dive.


---------- Post added December 18th, 2014 at 10:54 PM ----------

...ankle-deep water and we where searching for an hour afterwards

That is another thing I heard around the mentioned commercial divers: Why use an SPG that you can only find by touch and never read? (but that can break and fail easily)

 

[MSargeant]

No effing way? come for a visit

You can get zero viz where I live/anywhere, difference is to use the common sense to find somewhere else to dive or wait till conditions get better...

 

[Razorista]

I don't mind much, actually like low vis sometimes.

---------- Post added December 18th, 2014 at 11:53 PM ----------

...or wait till conditions get better...

Better than perfect for a good dive?
Actually that's anytime without lightning strikes becoming to frequent.
I would never cancel a dive just because visibility is bad, would go alone if no-one else wants to, easier that way anyway.

 

[MSargeant]

I don't mind much, actually like low vis sometimes.

---------- Post added December 18th, 2014 at 11:53 PM ----------


Better than perfect for a good dive?
Actually that's anytime without lightning strikes becoming to frequent.
I would never cancel a dive just because visibility is bad, would go alone if no-one else wants to, easier that way anyway.

Bit of a difference between ****e viz and complete zero. bad viz is more than do able, unless there's an objective such as skills which require no viz etc then why bother? Pack up n go somewhere else, can always dive another time.

 

[Razorista]

One of my instructors did not like that attitude. Standing on a dike in a storm at -11 degrees with regulators and tanks frozen to the drysuit and seeing the frozen saltwater framing the totally unattractive looking divespot from above was the last time I really had doubts (I nearly ran away then, but I would have broken my neck trying).

The same instructor accidentally chose a wrong divespot from memory half a year later and let me to one he really hated, would have let us miss the two sea-lions, but reminding him of his own words proved a good idea.

Both dives where partially zero vis and both where improved because of that (not much chance for an landlocked German to be touched by a sea-lion when not in a zoo).

Since than I missed two dives I would have been physically able to do (both in very good vis in Egypt), first one an hour with manatee, second one 45 minutes with playful wild dolphins.
Next one will be a missed whaleshark or the loch ness monster, I assume.

 

[MSargeant]

I really had doubts (I nearly ran away then, but I would have broken my neck trying).

The same instructor accidentally chose a wrong divespot from memory half a year later and let me to one he really hated, would have let us miss the two sea-lions, but reminding him of his own words proved a good idea.

Option 1 exists for a reason...