Future of DiveShops?

[Eric Sedletzky]

This whole debate about running ooa cracks me up.
First there was no J valve and it was all timing with no warning, the only warning was an unbalanced reg that started to breathe hard. Then there was the J valve which gave warning. Then came along the SPG and some declared that "any idiot can dive now". So now we have all these debates and incidents of running ooa when it should be almost irradicated. What's going on??
It should be easier than ever not to run ooa, just look at the damn thing!

But enough hijacking this thread. Let's get back to the "Future of the dive shop" and why they will soon starve to death from not getting enough calories from fighting over a few left over crumbs.

 

[mjrob]

The market exists. That's been demonstrated by multiple surveys (not DEMA, because surveying the existing market has proven to be a waste of time and resources) and a few shops who have taken on a new, vibrant--and yes, youthful--presentation. Too many of us continue to be unable to see the loaf for the crumbs, if you will.

Sadly, there is much effort being wasted on debate that would be better applied in action upon the "problem" that doesn't really exist. In my mind, I see this cartoon image of an industry with one foot in a bucket and another bucket over its head. Remove just one bucket (preferably the one covering the visionary and cognitive unit, we can pull the other one off fairly quickly after that) and you'll be surprised how quickly you'll see results.

--or--

Talk is cheap, action is profitable.

Mark

Coming to you from Anda in the Philippines, thankfully south of where the big winds are about to hit. Please keep the Filipinos in your heart, thoughts and prayers as they suffer through still another major catastrophe.

 

[RJP]

We think this is the real world because we're here, but it's really not.

"A fish has no idea that it's in water."

One of the first things I noticed at DEMA as "an outsider" is that scuba is the only industry I've ever seen where everyone is "an insider." Which is to say everyone in the dive industry is a diver, so everyone assumes what they think is representative of what the customer thinks.

And since most people in the industry were REALLY divers before... most people in the industry REALLY think they know what the customer thinks.

In any other industry, the guy who got into the business because he was an "extreme customer" is few and far between. The head of marketing for Coke didn't enter the industry because he was really into being a soda drinker in his late teens and early twenties. Accordingly he has a much higher degree of objectivity, and has no closely held emotions or feelings to get hurt if things change. He can treat Coke like a business.

 

[KevinNM]

In any other industry, the guy who got into the business because he was an "extreme customer" is few and far between. The head of marketing for Coke didn't enter the industry because he was really into being a soda drinker in his late teens and early twenties. Accordingly he has a much higher degree of objectivity, and has no closely held emotions or feelings to get hurt if things change. He can treat Coke like a business.

You've never been exposed to the gaming (not gambling) industry. Particularly the paper and pencil side, but the computer side has some of the same issues. The computer side is on a smaller level mostly because the money needed for computer games has reached absurd levels that requires adult supervision.

There are others too. For example tactical equipment and training companies are generally founded and run by people who spent a decent side at the sharp end of the spear who either "know how to make better gear" (whether they do or not...) or who have acquired skills and (hopefully ability to teach) that people want to learn from someone who has been there and done that.

Both of these industries have lots of little companies with a few larger and well established companies.

You see the same thing with gun companies, there are maybe 6 big (for gun companies), another half dozen that most gun stores will often have one or more of and then literally dozens of little niche companies, some of which have been cranking away for 40 years. People usually don't decide to go into the business of making custom 1911 pistols as part of a well thought out plan as to how to get rich.

I'm sure there are lot more examples. In general I think you will find most of the players in these industries are not really managed that well, even if they make great products.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

"A fish has no idea that it's in water."

One of the best lines I've seen in a while. I might have to steal that for a sig.

One of the first things I noticed at DEMA as "an outsider" is that scuba is the only industry I've ever seen where everyone is "an insider." Which is to say everyone in the dive industry is a diver, so everyone assumes what they think is representative of what the customer thinks.

And since most people in the industry were REALLY divers before... most people in the industry REALLY think they know what the customer thinks.

In any other industry, the guy who got into the business because he was an "extreme customer" is few and far between. The head of marketing for Coke didn't enter the industry because he was really into being a soda drinker in his late teens and early twenties. Accordingly he has a much higher degree of objectivity, and has no closely held emotions or feelings to get hurt if things change. He can treat Coke like a business.

The dive industry is blinded and confused by all the mirrors on the inside of their bubble.

 

[RJP]

You've never been exposed to the gaming (not gambling) industry. Particularly the paper and pencil side, but the computer side has some of the same issues. The computer side is on a smaller level mostly because the money needed for computer games has reached absurd levels that requires adult supervision.

There are others too. For example tactical equipment and training companies are generally founded and run by people who spent a decent side at the sharp end of the spear who either "know how to make better gear" (whether they do or not...) or who have acquired skills and (hopefully ability to teach) that people want to learn from someone who has been there and done that.

Both of these industries have lots of little companies with a few larger and well established companies.

You see the same thing with gun companies, there are maybe 6 big (for gun companies), another half dozen that most gun stores will often have one or more of and then literally dozens of little niche companies, some of which have been cranking away for 40 years. People usually don't decide to go into the business of making custom 1911 pistols as part of a well thought out plan as to how to get rich.

I'm sure there are lot more examples. In general I think you will find most of the players in these industries are not really managed that well, even if they make great products.

I think the "founder, owner, operator" thing is also problematic.

Nobody thinks their baby is ugly. Everyone thinks their kid has talent. And for sure no-one want to hear advice on how to raise them from someone else. Certainly not from someone who's never given birth and raised a child of their own.

 

[MrCultureJammer]

Did ANYONE in Vegas have a thoughtful, agreeable conversation with you? From here, it sounds as though it was an exercise in futility.

 

[webedivin2000]

As LDS owner and being in the industry for 42 years, not all LDS, but as an instructor, resort manager and photo professional the industry has evolved and today we are plagued by the Internet, training agency and manufacturers! So to say that there is one problem causing the situation is a moot point!
IMHO manufactures/DEMA are convincing people that the market for diving is a huge one, it is not, but to sell equipment they need showrooms for there products to sell,on the Internet so they use LDS and instructors! The first thing a showroomer wants is to try it on for size and what do we recommend?
Training agency have gearied there programs for warm water divers with high visibility diving, not diving in 42 degree water in the quarry or the wrecks of the North Atlantic! Surrounded by the every one can dive attitude especially if you sign up online, however, new potential divers need a place to learn these skills and believe me there are many great instructors out there that are not affiliated with my shop that I support and work with! Independant instructors are not my competition, working together increases our business! Look very closely at training numbers as education growth is mostly in Europe presently not in the US! Also watch closely as the VA, federal money dries up and the Openwater diver to instructor in 9 months losses momentum US number will decrease further!
Also watch closely as home land security has dumped Billions into local municipalities through grants that some manufactures have capitalize on that market, and that has elevated the gross industry sales!
So looking at the industry especially in equipment it not totally consumer drivin!
As a LDS owner I am always learning and with a open mind to the customers, understanding that we cannot please everyone and the fact is there are people that expect help and opinions but feel we should not make a profit we attempt to over come the challenges! I can convey one thing to the consumer and this is we cannot afford to stock everything you see on a photo on Internet shops, as in many cases, they do not have it either until you,place and order! But given the time we will make the effort to get it for you at a competitive price!
Just one quick story!! Yesterday I had a person walk into my shop, which we have over $20,000. Of Henerson inventory, carrying a wetsuit in a box! The person ask, " I purchased this Henderson suit on the Internet, it does not fit, would you exchange it for the right size! Funny story HUH, but true and my point when I ask he paid the same price I sell them for including our state sales tax!!!
My last point! I got into diving because I love the underwater world, cold or warm, clear or limited visibility, I love adventure and introducing people to the thing I live every day called diving! I make my living doing what I love the industry has changed but as said in some other post, the industry needs to change but not just one aspect is the solution!

 

[MrCultureJammer]

! (!!!) !!

 

[RJP]

Did ANYONE in Vegas have a thoughtful, agreeable conversation with you? From here, it sounds as though it was an exercise in futility.

Yup. But I can't remember his name... Peter something-or-other.



---------- Post added December 11th, 2014 at 07:58 PM ----------

Yesterday I had a person walk into my shop, which we have over $20,000. Of Henerson inventory, carrying a wetsuit in a box! The person ask, " I purchased this Henderson suit on the Internet, it does not fit, would you exchange it for the right size! Funny story HUH, but true and my point when I ask he paid the same price I sell them for including our state sales tax!!!

Two questions:

1.) Who's fault is that?
2.) What did you do?