Gear order of purchase???

[Aegir]

I would have to disagree with DivingGal on this one. I strongly feel that a computer should be purchased as soon as possible. Especially air intergrated models since they calculate air time left on workrate and eliminate human error during the dive planning stage. Eliminating Human error at the dive planning stage reduces the chances of an emergency or "worse" occuring. Of course, i am not suggesting that Dstang65 is stupid by any means. Even the most intelligent people make mistakes when working out bottom time/air depletion time etc. It is just a simple observation, i would never concider buying a wetsuit before a computer. Unless of course i was only diving in a swimming pool.

JUST my opinion

_____________
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with."

 

[Merlin]

A reg is more important than the computer and who wants to rent a reg with a mouthpiece that tastes like what the last guy had for lunch.

I would check out Rodale's Scuba Diving reviews on regs. Pick one that fits your budget but gives you good performance under your diving conditions. If you are diving cold (or might someday), get a cold water reg. Consider a sealed first stage if you are diving cold, mucky, or dirty water. A sealed first stage will also help keep the salt out as well.

I have Oceanic Delta II subzero's because I dive mostly cold water. The Scubapro's are excellent regs as well, but I went with the Oceanic because it was equivelent in performance and cost alot less.

 

[turnerjd]

Originally posted by Aegir
I would have to disagree with DivingGal on this one. I strongly feel that a computer should be purchased as soon as possible. Especially air intergrated models since they calculate air time left on workrate and eliminate human error during the dive planning stage. Eliminating Human error at the dive planning stage reduces the chances of an emergency or "worse" occuring. Of course, i am not suggesting that Dstang55 is stupid by any means. Even the most intelligent people make mistakes when working out bottom time/air depletion time etc. It is just a simple observation, i would never concider buying a wetsuit before a computer. Unless of course i was only diving in a swimming pool.

JUST my opinion

_____________
"The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with."

Aegir,

Whilst agreeing that functions like air left calculated on work rate are nice to have, I would be very concerned diving with people that had always relied on technology like this.

I would like to suggest, that whilst people are relatively inexperienced they should use the techniques taught in their basic course. I am refering to things like monitoring their air regularly, monitoring their depth, and their time. If techniques like this, which (in my oppinion) are absolutely fundamental to diving aren't mastered right at the start then that diver is an accident waiting to happen.

Those first 30-40 dives you do are those where the majority of the (bad) habits are re-inforced. If you start off by relying on computer functions like that, and don't get into good habits, it will be much harder if you go on to do much more challenging diving.

Computer functions like this should be a backup for good diving practice, not instead of it.

Just my (different) oppinion

Jon T

 

[Dstang65]

Thanks everyone, you have all been helpful. I see the point that some of you are trying to put across as pertaining to the basics of table diving. It makes good sense and I agree with the fact that divers who dont learn fundamentals like SPG discipline and table calculations at depth are a potential danger to themselves and others. I am still under 20 dives and I agree that maybe I'm not ready to abandon the tables and still need to hone my table skill. I guess I'm gonna go with the regs, since the vast majority seem to have answered in favor of the regs. I will now of course have to wait until I can afford the console and the octo [Hmm, I wonder how much i can get for plassma donation]. Is scubapro over priced? I was told that atomic is a company that has almost the exact same thing with out the brand markup. Is this true? again any help... This is gotta be the best board on the net.

 

[Aegir]

There is no difference of opinion, i agree totally with what you just said. I think you missed my point. I never suggested or mentioned anything about relying on a computer.
You have opened up a new subject and pointed out that a diver should never rely upon a computer...and i think your right 100%

___________
"A sure cure for seasickness is to sit under a tree."

 

[Mario S Caner]

Hello All,
Here's my $0.02, I've worked the floor of a dive shop and been through enough continueing education courses to have pretty strong opinions on certain things, this is my professional opinion:

The computer makes the most difference by far out of all the different pieces of gear you can choose from. The comp takes the guess work and the errors in judgement when it comes to calculating bottom times and maximum depth limits encountered in diving. The computer doesn't make mistakes, humans do.

I'm not saying that the regulator isn't important, I'm just saying that the computer is more important to start with as your first purchase. The computer is the bigger investment of the two, but it will have a profound impact on your diving. I recommend you pick one that is air integrated, has audible alarms and has the capability to calculate Nitrox tables as well. If you prefer a traditional configuration with a hose, I suggest the Suunto Cobra. If you like high tech and prefer a hoseless air integrated computer that Aladin Air Z o2 and the Oceanic Data Trans Plus are the kings of the hill.

 

[Iguana Don]

Jon,
What you said was very well put. I would like to add this.

IMHO, the first 30-40 dives should be done with tables and get the fundamentals down pat. Too many classes are being taught with computers instead of tables. I think we are making a terrible mistake in this area. We are getting away from the basics. If your computer craps out on you, what are you going to rely on. Sure you abort the dive and surface, but what then?
Shops are looking to make $ instead of training divers, trying to take all the thinking out of diving and push the high profit dive computer.
In essence dive computers tell you what you have already done, not what you are going to do or need to do. You need to have the mental picture of your dive in your head before ever going into the water.

Just another .02, BTW, Jon, no exchange rate here, all .02 is worth the same, USA, UK, Swiss, Canadian, wherever.
We are all equal here.

Don #1

 

[turnerjd]

Originally posted by don
Jon,
What you said was very well put. I would like to add this.

IMHO, the first 30-40 dives should be done with tables and get the fundamentals down pat. Too many classes are being taught with computers instead of tables. I think we are making a terrible mistake in this area. We are getting away from the basics. <snip rest>
Don #1

Don,

I haven't come across o/w courses being taught with computers. Is this an american or a resort thing?

I have been very lucky untill about 9 or so months ago. We used to have a very good and consciencious shop near us, however, it has now gone out of business due to another shop being more ££££££ orientated.

From what I have seen, there is a perception amongst people new to the sport that the more things you do in the basic course the better. I suspect that a good example of this would be doing the o/w course with a computer, there is a perceived extra value here. (Whereas, I would argue that inadequate attention to the theory behind NDL's etc.. and a reliance on the computer is short-changeing them)

Just my .02

Jon T

 

[Iguana Don]

Jon,

I guess it is an "American" thing here, more & more of the shops are advertising that as a draw.

I agree with the "more the better" view that you have, but the "more" we are teaching them is the wrong "more". They are teaching them to rely on the computer, no matter what they are saying.

They need to teach them "more" skills and "more" theory as you have stated.

Don

 

[Iguana Don]

Jon,

Let's start a new thread on this topic, so all will follow this.

Goto this link -- Dive Computers & O/W

Don