Question GUE - Is it much different to traditional agencies like SSI or PADI?

[Lorenzoid]

Also there appears to be just 1 GUEF instructor and agency in NZ offering it?

I see: GUE Instructors

I have met Kelvin, and he is indeed firmly in Mexico nowadays. It looks like Serena is the one who teaches Fundies in NZ. Why not try to set up a phone chat with her? You could ask about Fundies versus Rec 1.

Most GUE instructors are happy to talk with people who are curious about GUE training. You could even try to set up a chat with Kelvin and say it's because the GUE website lists him as a NZ-based instructor, feigning ignorance that he's really a Mexican now. (Can you tell from his profile pic on the GUE website that he has a sense of humor?) Chatting with as many people as possible to get a variety of perspectives is not a bad idea. I recommend a voice call or videoconference rather than email. You want to hear their voice. After reading about GUE, one might wonder if these instructors are actually human. They indeed are, and while I'm sure there are exceptions, most are down-to-earth and easy to talk to. Kelvin is a good guy and has a wonderful little operation in Mexico. By the way, taking Fundies abroad is not unheard-of--just "dear" as you say.

 

[Oldbear]

I see: GUE Instructors

I have met Kelvin, and he is indeed firmly in Mexico nowadays. It looks like Serena is the one who teaches Fundies in NZ. Why not try to set up a phone chat with her? You could ask about Fundies versus Rec 1.

Most GUE instructors are happy to talk with people who are curious about GUE training. You could even try to set up a chat with Kelvin and say it's because the GUE website lists him as a NZ-based instructor, feigning ignorance that he's really a Mexican now. (Can you tell from his profile pic on the GUE website that he has a sense of humor?) Chatting with as many people as possible to get a variety of perspectives is not a bad idea. I recommend a voice call or videoconference rather than email. You want to hear their voice. After reading about GUE, one might wonder if these instructors are actually human. They indeed are, and while I'm sure there are exceptions, most are down-to-earth and easy to talk to. Kelvin is a good guy and has a wonderful little operation in Mexico. By the way, taking Fundies abroad is not unheard-of--just "dear" as you say.

I couldn’t agree more…talk with your intended instructor and discuss your needs, wants and expectations vs what they offer/recommend.

The actual Fundie course itself is nothing more than a teaching platform. It will be the instructor who make your experience good…for you..

 

[Zinman]

Fundies is a brilliant course, you can aim for a "Rec" pass but if I were you, I would wait a bit until you gain some comfort in the water. Fundies is not a boot camp by any means and the skills are basic but you will be exhausted at the end of the day. I think it's useful to have some experience before doing Fundies - otherwise you might be overwhelmed or slow down the rest of the team a lot. You also need to use a specific gear setup.

What might help you is to reach out to a GUE instructor (or any decent instructor, really) and do a coaching day in a quarry.

It also helps if the instructor can hook you up with a group of divers who train together frequently and who could take you under their wings to go diving. It's important to dive with other normal divers, not just 1:1 with paid DMs.

This is very helpful and doable advice, thank you.

 

[Wibble]

GUE’s end goal is completely different from the recreational agencies. GUE—and other technical agencies—aim to provide team-based divers who can safely work together in overhead, deep and other challenging environments including expeditions. Recreational agencies aim to produce safe divers in relatively simple benign conditions within no-decompression and no-overhead limits.

Just, for example, consider the planning, skills, techniques and equipment required to do a simple Open Water dive…. Now compare that with a cave penetration requiring extensive planning, specialist equipment, redundant gases, line laying techniques, finning in silty conditions, discipline to keep within the limits, navigation, consideration of the myriad perils, using a rebreather, etc. There’s barely any comparison between the two styles of diving.

Hence technical diving standards are much greater than recreational diving, requiring dedication over many years of training and practice to develop the skills and experience to perform those dives.

 

[lermontov]

Give Andrew Simpson a call at Global dive in Auckland he will give you some advice and direction

 

[Lorenzoid]

GUE’s end goal is completely different from the recreational agencies. GUE—and other technical agencies—aim to provide team-based divers who can safely work together in overhead, deep and other challenging environments including expeditions. Recreational agencies aim to produce safe divers in relatively simple benign conditions within no-decompression and no-overhead limit.

I don't necessarily disagree with what you said, but maybe I can expand on it.

As you may know, GUE has been trying for a long time to establish themselves as a legitimate recreational agency option, not just a cave/tech training agency. Look in their literature, and you'll see pictures of people cruising along coral reefs in addition to all that cave/tech diving. GUE offers the full OW course, known as Rec 1, for people with no prior dive training.

Sure, GUE's approach is "team-based," and they do aim to turn out Fundies grads who would, as you said, be capable of working together in more challenging environments, but that doesn't exclude people who consider themselves recreational-only divers. A "team" can be, say, a couple whose typical diving style is cruising along coral reefs, like many other recreational divers. My wife and I did just that for a year or more after taking Fundies, and we felt the Fundies experience made our diving more enjoyable. That said, living close to north Florida we eventually made too many friends at the dive shop who were cave divers, and we got curious and eventually sucked into the cave diving orbit, but I think that's beside the point; we would have been perfectly happy to continue the type of recreational diving we had been doing for years before Fundies, only with the more methodical and, yes, team-based approach that GUE advocates. When we get too feeble for cave diving and revert to recreational-only old-fart diving, we might very well try to keep it GUE-style. I have no idea if remaining in the recreational-only GUE realm for the long term after Fundies is typical, though. My guess is that most Fundies grads sooner or later catch the advanced diving bug just as we did and end up going for cave/tech training.

I'm not at all advocating the OP would be better served by taking Fundies than other non-GUE routes to becoming a better diver. I'm merely addressing your point about GUE having a "completely different" end goal. In the recreational context, I believe GUE's goal is not all that different from other agencies' goals. For the purely recreational diver, the whole team-based diving thing really just means being a proper buddy to each other. Whether it's ultimately "worth it" to the rec-only diver in terms of the time and cost investments, where there is training and mentoring available from non-GUE sources, is subjective and individual.

 

[bubblemonkey2]

It's kind of somewhere between a premium exclusive club and a religion, last time I was exposed to it.

PADI & SSI etc courses typically sacrifice quality and personalized feedback, because that's what the typical customer wants (or has). Less money & less time required. See you on the next minicourse $$

GUE offers a lot to the wealthy urban diver who likes that 'team' feel, and being told they are not quite good enough to go into the Wakulla Karst Caves yet

You can get a similar quality of skills, methods, and instruction from many--but certainly not all--other instructors under other agencies (e.g. TDI), if you are willing to pay how much extra GUE asks. Except then you won't be recruited into GUEs exclusive training progression

If you were like me and most other divers, you're probably just trying to enjoy your open water dive--be it fun diving, tecrec, mild wreck diving--without getting another condescending debrief about briefly silting the sand once during the daily 2 hour valve drills & backkicking prayer session

The latter is what GUE was doing when I looked into it. 25 more of those exclusively signed GUE Dives with GUE Divers before you get to pay them the next course fee! Ditch your other heathen dive buddies if they didn't also sign on & tithe. They'll just put you at risk, and hold you back as a GUE Diver! WE are you friends now

 

[DiveLikeAMuppet]

It's kind of somewhere between a premium exclusive club and a religion, last time I was exposed to it.

GUE offers a lot to the wealthy urban diver who likes that 'team' feel, and being told they are not quite good enough to go into the Wakulla Karst Caves yet

Love this btw.



GUE does attract a lot of people with a well-developed impostor syndrome who do enjoy a little bit of roasting or a good whipping session... I certainly do, nothing better than spending a day in a quarry with a GoPro to analyse your trim . Different type of fun.

You can get a similar quality of skills, methods, and instruction from many--but certainly not all--other instructors under other agencies (e.g. TDI), if you are willing to pay how much extra GUE asks. Except then you won't be recruited into GUEs exclusive training progression

What you get from GUE is good value for money, if you are a time-constrained wealthy urbanite . It may not always be what you need but you are almost guaranteed to get a good product. It is very clear what level you need to achieve, standards are public.

Every instructor and every agency is selling to their own market, it's their business after all. Some do it cheap, some do sidemount, some are known for accelerating courses and bending standards, others play the exclusivity card (GUE or superstar instructors with a large online following).

But you are right that the Fundies-T1-T2/CCR1 training progression is for w*nkers with current helium prices.

If you were like me and most other divers, you're probably just trying to enjoy your open water dive--be it fun diving, tecrec, mild wreck diving--without getting another condescending debrief about briefly silting the sand once during the daily 2 hour valve drills & backkicking prayer session

Divers who do not work on their skills put you in danger. GUE encourages divers to work on their skills. Nothing wrong with that, a healthy balance helps.

The latter is what GUE was doing when I looked into it. 25 more of those exclusively signed GUE Dives with GUE Divers before you get to pay them the next course fee! Ditch your other heathen dive buddies if they didn't also sign on & tithe. They'll just put you at risk, and hold you back as a GUE Diver! WE are you friends now

GUE recommends 25+ dives between training levels. That's a healthy minimum to solidify your skills from the course. Nobody says these dives need to be only with GUE divers and nobody signs the dives... It's an honour system.

You get it in other agencies too - no sane instructor will sign you up for a zero-to-hero training (e.g. cavern + intro + full cave, or T1+CCR, ANDP+trimix or ANDP+deco CCR). Those who do either know about some special circumstances (you are a diving superman), are very dishonest with you because they never expect you to pass or they might bend the standard.

 

[Lorenzoid]

GUE recommends 25+ dives between training levels. That's a healthy minimum to solidify your skills from the course. Nobody says these dives need to be only with GUE divers and nobody signs the dives... It's an honour system.

I would also point out, in the spirit of the OP's situation, that a diver who takes the Fundies course is under no obligation to ever take another GUE course or, for that matter, to ever dive GUE-style again. It can be a standalone course.

 

[steinbil]

The latter is what GUE was doing when I looked into it. 25 more of those exclusively signed GUE Dives with GUE Divers before you get to pay them the next course fee! Ditch your other heathen dive buddies if they didn't also sign on & tithe. They'll just put you at risk, and hold you back as a GUE Diver! WE are you friends now

I'm sure there are some very few close-minded (and maybe loud) people in GUE also, but I just want to be clear that the people I've met through GUE are some of the nicest, most helpful and generous people I've met, in addition to being great divers. 80%+ of my dives happen to be non-GUE dives. I just generally tend to enjoy the dives with GUE divers more, because the dives are more relaxing, more efficient and also more challenging on a personal level - and I enjoy that challenge.

To the point of money, I think the GUE Rec 1 class is probably the best bang for the buck in all of Scuba. Just in terms of how many hours you get. At least around these parts. Fundies is a close second. I feel like people complaining about GUE prices don't consider the actual amount of instruction they're getting for the price...