Lost Yooper
Guest
Hey Don, Mike hit this one square on the head -- helium is your friend.
Good post AUE-Mike.
Mike
Good post AUE-Mike.
Mike
Heliox ?
- Thread starter Iguana Don
- Start date
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100days-a-year
Contributor
Mikey,what go you guys pay there for He?We pay a little less than 30c per cuft here in Jax.That makes at 50/50 say about $3-$6 more a dive.What sftware do you use ?Or can you configure one to allow 50/50 in the defaults.
Bob3
Contributor
Thanks for the post Mike, it's always good to hear from folks that actually use the stuff.
Too many "armchair divers" out there.
Too many "armchair divers" out there.
aue-mike
Contributor
Hi Tony-
I get a T cylinder of helium for about $65. For 50/50, again the real issue is not cost (this is already an expensive sport) but being able to get adequate working psi. Getting the He in first is not an issue, but then getting the O2 up to 3000 psi requires a booster. If the dive does not require a lengthy deco, you can plan on short fills (final psi of 50/50 at 2000psi); you should easily be able to get 2 dives out of a full single AL40, so one dive with 2000psi is a cinch. It just is not very efficient to fill.
The guys that have boosters and have the time to do it generally use heliox. We all plan on using it for the mondo deep dives. Other times, when I have a "weak" helium cylinder (low psi -- getting ready to exchange it) with only a couple hundred psi in it, I will throw that into the "EANx 50/50" cylinder rather than waste it. You end up with a weak trimix, though the helium is so low it is no huge benefit (aside from wasting expensive helium).
Many of the software programs allow you to input your deco gas. I think DECOM and others already have a suite of deco gasses to pick from, including heliox 50/50.
I use proprietary AUE tables that blow away any software. Even using DecoPlanner, DECOM, ZPlan, etc set at ZERO conservatism, these get you out of the water faster. We are keeping them quiet because of the highly litigious environment we live in.
If I am in a pinch, I will use old DECOM at zero conservatism, "lie" about the helium content so as not to be penalized too much, and then tweak the deep stops and trim the O2. After doing this a while you "see" how things work and how to alter the profiles to give you the most efficient and safest deco.
Cheers,
Mike
I get a T cylinder of helium for about $65. For 50/50, again the real issue is not cost (this is already an expensive sport) but being able to get adequate working psi. Getting the He in first is not an issue, but then getting the O2 up to 3000 psi requires a booster. If the dive does not require a lengthy deco, you can plan on short fills (final psi of 50/50 at 2000psi); you should easily be able to get 2 dives out of a full single AL40, so one dive with 2000psi is a cinch. It just is not very efficient to fill.
The guys that have boosters and have the time to do it generally use heliox. We all plan on using it for the mondo deep dives. Other times, when I have a "weak" helium cylinder (low psi -- getting ready to exchange it) with only a couple hundred psi in it, I will throw that into the "EANx 50/50" cylinder rather than waste it. You end up with a weak trimix, though the helium is so low it is no huge benefit (aside from wasting expensive helium).
Many of the software programs allow you to input your deco gas. I think DECOM and others already have a suite of deco gasses to pick from, including heliox 50/50.
I use proprietary AUE tables that blow away any software. Even using DecoPlanner, DECOM, ZPlan, etc set at ZERO conservatism, these get you out of the water faster. We are keeping them quiet because of the highly litigious environment we live in.
If I am in a pinch, I will use old DECOM at zero conservatism, "lie" about the helium content so as not to be penalized too much, and then tweak the deep stops and trim the O2. After doing this a while you "see" how things work and how to alter the profiles to give you the most efficient and safest deco.
Cheers,
Mike
Lost Yooper
Guest
Hey Mike, the WKPP also uses custom plans that beat everything else. Have you compared your tables to theirs as a matter of self interest? I'm not even sure if they have released them.
Mike
Mike
aue-mike
Contributor
Hi Mike-
Nah, the stuff they are doing is also not applicable to mainstream tech diving. Doing several hours at 300' isn't on my agenda However, I am sure George's personal tables for "bounce" dives may be similar.
For whatever its worth, all the software out there is very similar in regards to the profiles they use, because they all depend on the same, or similar, decompression algorithms. That is, the guts are the same. The difference is in how you can tweak them and all the bells and whistles in the various programs.
Cheers,
Mike
Nah, the stuff they are doing is also not applicable to mainstream tech diving. Doing several hours at 300' isn't on my agenda
However, I am sure George's personal tables for "bounce" dives may be similar. For whatever its worth, all the software out there is very similar in regards to the profiles they use, because they all depend on the same, or similar, decompression algorithms. That is, the guts are the same. The difference is in how you can tweak them and all the bells and whistles in the various programs.
Cheers,
Mike
Lost Yooper
Guest
That makes sense. George's crew is reaching full saturation. I'm quite interested in the excellerated tables. We do similar things, but add a bit of conservativism for the colder water up here. Are your tables based more closely to the RGBM or VPM stuff? If it makes you more comfortable, go ahead and e-mail me and we'll have a discussion.
Thanks.
mike
Thanks.
mike
100days-a-year
Contributor
THanx Mikey,I have access to Haskell,booster pump and something very similoar to your hanger.My buddy ran a full outfit in DC area.It'd be nice to get some back and forth with ya'll before you work your way up to my place(did I mention my list of super secret deep wrecks here in Jax?)The range here puts these guys out of range for most here.As for the cost aspect of He for diving,that $3-$6 I was talkin' about is less than what I spend on water or soda for the day.The only cost I worry about is the one extracted by my bride for all the toys and time I blow.
aue-mike
Contributor
Hi Mike-
Yes, I would say it is similar to RGBM, though from my limited real-world experience with RGBM (i.e., diving with others who used RGBM -- Abyss Trimix computer) it appears that it starts the deeper stops much deeper, but you catch up as you ascend. It keeps you in the water a tad longer, but the shape of the profile is much better than the classic steep inverted funnel profile you get from other programs (exponentially more deco towards the surface).
Cheers,
Mike
Yes, I would say it is similar to RGBM, though from my limited real-world experience with RGBM (i.e., diving with others who used RGBM -- Abyss Trimix computer) it appears that it starts the deeper stops much deeper, but you catch up as you ascend. It keeps you in the water a tad longer, but the shape of the profile is much better than the classic steep inverted funnel profile you get from other programs (exponentially more deco towards the surface).
Cheers,
Mike
Lost Yooper
Guest
I figured that, Mike. You come out feeling like a champ after a dive with that type of profile. I like it because you're clear in just a couple hours and ready for another dive, plane ride, or whatever.
Take care.
Mike
Take care.
Mike
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