Help choose the right BC & regulator system

[Belzelbub]

Actually, the tank was full .. mostly I didn't feel comfortable with it, and feel like it dragging my mouth to the hose direction.

Yeah, I think because it was an unbalanced piston, I weren't breathing very well.

There are three dive shops in the city .. it's a small city. It doesn't matter of to service it in this city. My hometown is one of the biggest cities in the kingdom, it has more advanced shops.

I'm thinking of the one in the starting post. I just want to be sure if it's balanced diaphragm and nitrox compatible.

An unbalanced piston should still be able to breathe well, it is likely that this reg was in need of service. The comfort part sounds like it may be a hose routing issue. Comfort is individual, and usually corrected by either a different mouthpiece or hose routing.

Mouthpiece is a simple fix. I like the moldable ones like Seacure.
Hose routing can be a bit more complex, but there are things that can be done to prevent the tugging. First, using Miflex hose (looks like the Mares Prestige 12S comes with Miflex) can help as it's quite a bit more flexible than the standard rubber hoses. Second, you could add a swivel. I don't use a swivel as I don't find it necessary, and I have heard of some failures with some swivels.

The price listed in the link for this reg does not look that great. Here's a much better price. Mares Prestige 12S Regulator 416182

Now on to this particular regulator. It is indeed a balanced regulator. I'm not sure why it's listed as not nitrox compatible on the Joe Diver site. Per my nitrox training, the compatibility issues only usually arise at high O2 percentages. Most, if not all regs are compatible up to 40% by default. In the LP link above, go to the Q&A and you'll see that someone had this same question, and looks like they called Mares to confirm that up to 40% is OK.

I'm not a big fan of the inline style of first stage that it looks like this reg is. I much prefer those that have a 90 degree angle between the Yoke/DIN and the reg body. with the inline, some of your hoses will be angled down, others will be angled up. A reg with the 90 degree bend will allow the hoses to come straight out to the side, or slightly forward. The Mares Prestige 15X has the 90 degree body, but is a bit more expensive. This one from Aqualung is the same price as the Mares you were looking at from JDA Aqua Lung Mikron Regulator

 

[Crowley]

If the OP dives in cold water (around here the local dive areas are quarries and the water is in the 40s F or lower at depth) a regulator designed for cold temperatures might be a good idea. At my local quarry the rules say you need such a regulator to go deeper than 50 feet.

Thanks for putting that out there - I'm too much of a warm water guy!

 

[SubMariner]

As I said in the other thread you started on this topic, you need to slow down.

Don't buy gear until you are certified and know what the equipment is, how it should function, and whether or not you'll be diving enough to justify buying it vs renting it.

Don't get caught up in the "Gear Game".

 

[WarriorWolf]

An unbalanced piston should still be able to breathe well, it is likely that this reg was in need of service. The comfort part sounds like it may be a hose routing issue. Comfort is individual, and usually corrected by either a different mouthpiece or hose routing.

Mouthpiece is a simple fix. I like the moldable ones like Seacure.
Hose routing can be a bit more complex, but there are things that can be done to prevent the tugging. First, using Miflex hose (looks like the Mares Prestige 12S comes with Miflex) can help as it's quite a bit more flexible than the standard rubber hoses. Second, you could add a swivel. I don't use a swivel as I don't find it necessary, and I have heard of some failures with some swivels.

The price listed in the link for this reg does not look that great. Here's a much better price. Mares Prestige 12S Regulator 416182

Now on to this particular regulator. It is indeed a balanced regulator. I'm not sure why it's listed as not nitrox compatible on the Joe Diver site. Per my nitrox training, the compatibility issues only usually arise at high O2 percentages. Most, if not all regs are compatible up to 40% by default. In the LP link above, go to the Q&A and you'll see that someone had this same question, and looks like they called Mares to confirm that up to 40% is OK.

I'm not a big fan of the inline style of first stage that it looks like this reg is. I much prefer those that have a 90 degree angle between the Yoke/DIN and the reg body. with the inline, some of your hoses will be angled down, others will be angled up. A reg with the 90 degree bend will allow the hoses to come straight out to the side, or slightly forward. The Mares Prestige 15X has the 90 degree body, but is a bit more expensive. This one from Aqualung is the same price as the Mares you were looking at from JDA Aqua Lung Mikron Regulator

Yes, the price at JoeDiverAmerica.com is high when you buy it alone. In the package page there is a good total price ranging from $852 if I decided to get the back-inflate style or $720 with the jacket style.

Which is the final step, I've decided to get the Mares 12S prestige. I left to decide the bc.

The link for the aqua lung is nice one. It looks a very good one and very similar to the Mares.

I didn't understand the 90 degree body, I think the three regs have similar yoke valve. Also, the aqua lung seems more than 90 degree.

As I said in the other thread you started on this topic, you need to slow down.

Don't buy gear until you are certified and know what the equipment is, how it should function, and whether or not you'll be diving enough to justify buying it vs renting it.

Don't get caught up in the "Gear Game".

You are mostly right. I like your idea to justify buying it. And I say that I need it because either if I wanted to dive in this small city or in my hometown, I would love to have my own gear. And if I traveled to USA and it was easy to visit cities on the shore, then with costs of shipping the gear, it would be OK. If not I would leave it here and rent gear in USA, because I may or may not dive there. And I think it would be very interesting to dive in USA.

They are 4 parts and packed altogether within the bc. The other parts, wetsuit, fins, mask and boots should have other packing.

Or buy a bag for all which is more reasonable.

 

[Belzelbub]

I didn't understand the 90 degree body, I think the three regs have similar yoke valve. Also, the aqua lung seems more than 90 degree.

Yes. The regs have similar yoke valves. The 90 degree or inline refers to the angle that the yoke makes with the body.

The following pictures may help. Both regs are DIN valve, but only because it looked a little cleaner than the Yoke when refering to the angle. The yoke clamp itself can rotate.
This is inline. When attached to the tank, the end with MK2 will be pointing toward the divers back, with the hoses going off to the sides, but angled slightly up or down.

This is 90 degree. The end with the low pressure ports is generally pointing down toward the divers feet. The hoses come out to the side. Either straight out to the side, or at an angle toward the front. They don't point up or down relative to the divers body, so you can position the hoses better.

 

[WarriorWolf]

Oh yeah, I understand .. this is the second type of 1st stage valves. Yoke and din.

These are two types of din valves and there's an adapter for yoke style.

So, are you preferring the din and why?

 

[Belzelbub]

I do prefer DIN, as it's a more secure connection. The DIN regs are a bit less bulky in my reg bags. Plus my tanks are setup as DIN. But, I carry a DIN to yoke converter if I rent, I can easily convert to yoke with no tools. Converting a yoke to DIN is much more involved.

But, the reasons for my post above was not about DIN vs. Yoke. Both of the regs above can be had in either connection. The purpose was to show the angle between the tank connection and the body of the reg. In the top one, the connection is at one end of the body. When you attach a primary, octo, SPG, and inflator, the hoses coming off the body form an X behind your head. All hoses go out to the side, but some angle up, some angle down. This can make for some less than ideal hose routing, and also makes it hard to store in a reg bag.

in the second pic, the DIN connection and the reg body form an L. The ports closest to the DIN are HP, and go out either side. If I were to attach the same devices, they'd all pretty much come out to the sides. The primary and/or inflator can use the ports that angle slightly forward. Much cleaner hose routing. All the hoses are close to parallel, so they roll up nicer in a reg bag as well.

 

[Searcaigh]

There are three dive shops in the city .. it's a small city. It doesn't matter of to service it in this city. My hometown is one of the biggest cities in the kingdom, it has more advanced shops.

Hi WarriorWolf,

It might help to receive better advice if you posted your location.

For what it is worth I used a Mares MR12 MkIII regulator for over 20 years with air and Nitrox and had no issues whatsoever.

I currently have four Mares first stages, two of which are used with deco bottles containing 50% Nitrox. Three of these first stages are all DIN, and one is a yolk.

I also use two ScubaPro Mk 25 regs with doubles because the first stage layout is much better for this application similar to the second photo by Belzelbub

I have also found that Mares jacket BCDs tend to be on the large side, I had one before I changed to BPW, so it is better to try one on first as I suggested earlier, otherwise it is a pain and costly to ship something back if it does not fit properly, my advice is still to buy the BCD locally.

 

[WarriorWolf]

Hi WarriorWolf,

It might help to receive better advice if you posted your location.

For what it is worth I used a Mares MR12 MkIII regulator for over 20 years with air and Nitrox and had no issues whatsoever.

I currently have four Mares first stages, two of which are used with deco bottles containing 50% Nitrox. Three of these first stages are all DIN, and one is a yolk.

I also use two ScubaPro Mk 25 regs with doubles because the first stage layout is much better for this application similar to the second photo by Belzelbub

I have also found that Mares jacket BCDs tend to be on the large side, I had one before I changed to BPW, so it is better to try one on first as I suggested earlier, otherwise it is a pain and costly to ship something back if it does not fit properly, my advice is still to buy the BCD locally.

My location is Saudi Arabia, redsea
Possible dive areas, middle and south the sea
Temperature, tropical

Is the Mares you used for 20 years balanced or unbalanced?
What's the difference between balanced and unbalanced reg?
Do you prefer din and why?
Is MK a standard model in regs?
What is ScScubaPro Mk 25 regs with doubles ubaPro Mk 25 regs with doubles ?

Yeah, I tried a new BC small in the shop and it fit very good. So, xs would be better, I saw the size chart and xs is similar to small.


My final concern is should go with back-inflate or jacket bc?

---------- Post added April 30th, 2015 at 10:14 PM ----------

I do prefer DIN, as it's a more secure connection. The DIN regs are a bit less bulky in my reg bags. Plus my tanks are setup as DIN. But, I carry a DIN to yoke converter if I rent, I can easily convert to yoke with no tools. Converting a yoke to DIN is much more involved.

But, the reasons for my post above was not about DIN vs. Yoke. Both of the regs above can be had in either connection. The purpose was to show the angle between the tank connection and the body of the reg. In the top one, the connection is at one end of the body. When you attach a primary, octo, SPG, and inflator, the hoses coming off the body form an X behind your head. All hoses go out to the side, but some angle up, some angle down. This can make for some less than ideal hose routing, and also makes it hard to store in a reg bag.

in the second pic, the DIN connection and the reg body form an L. The ports closest to the DIN are HP, and go out either side. If I were to attach the same devices, they'd all pretty much come out to the sides. The primary and/or inflator can use the ports that angle slightly forward. Much cleaner hose routing. All the hoses are close to parallel, so they roll up nicer in a reg bag as well.

This is a nice page about these connections and it's clear that din is superior.

What Is the Difference Between DIN and Yoke Regulators?

I now asked my instructor of which is the most common connection in the kingdom? And waiting for the answer.

So, if the most is yoke, then what's the point of getting a din with its adapter? Even if I wanted to use the din for its advantages.

When I have the chance to use the din as don't want to buy a tank, because it would be extra packing and I have to fill it, while the shop takes responsibility for this job.

I quoted this from another site:

"DIN valves are rated in atmospheres, or Bars. Well, that’s not exactly true. 1 atm (atmosphere) = 1.01325 bar, but it doesn’t matter much to divers anyway. What matters is there are 200 Bar and 300 Bar DIN fittings. 200 Bar DIN fittings are used with those convertible valves I mentioned earlier. High pressure, 3500 psi cylinders, like the Sherwood Genesis SCUBA tanks that kind of started the DIN thing in the U.S. are 300 Bar. You can’t use a 200 Bar regulator with a 300 Bar cylinder valve, but a 300 Bar regulator fitting will work with 200 Bar valves.
For this reason, it makes sense for your regulator to be equipped with a 300 Bar connection regardless of which tank you’ll be using. Along those lines, there are adaptors that convert DIN regulators to work with a standard yoke valve, so you can use the same regulator at home and when traveling.
The bottom line is for most divers, it doesn’t make much difference. But, as the sport continues to evolve, and as most divers grow, DIN makes more and more sense. It is unquestionably a more secure and durable connection, and in my opinion, the only choice for technical diving. Since there isn’t much difference, if any, in cost, when selecting a regulator, a DIN fitting plus an adaptor makes sense. Sometimes the adaptor is included. It depends on the manufacturer. Either way, it’s worth considering."

 

[Belzelbub]

So, if the most is yoke, then what's the point of getting a din with its adapter? Even if I wanted to use the din for its advantages.

When I have the chance to use the din as don't want to buy a tank, because it would be extra packing and I have to fill it, while the shop takes responsibility for this job.

There is another little wrench to throw in to this discussion. One that makes buying a DIN regulator even more of a no brainier. A lot of tanks now come with a combo valve. The combo valve has an insert that can be inserted to use with a yoke reg. The insert can be removed to use with a DIN reg.

When I got my first DIN reg, I only had yoke tanks. I used the adapter for a while. Since my reg had the 90 degree angle I mentioned earlier, I never had an issue with bumping my head. I've since converted my tanks to DIN. If I were going to rent tanks, I'd definitely go DIN with adapter. That way, I know it would work on any tank.