Hog Regulator Combo or get something better ???

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NetDoc, I respect you, and you have your opinion of your friend. But I have to say, he jumps in threads with endless self promotion of ScubaPro regs and it is tiresome. I wouldn't buy gear from him if he sold stuff under cost. Besides, can he pat himself on the back any more for all the diving he gets to do? I see a post coming up about the number of dives I have compared to his. That's his usual retort.
 
My biggest problem with this whole thing is the claim that ScubaPro is the best and, therefore, justifies the ridiculously high price. The simple fact is, there is no one brand, or even model, that can truthfully make that claim. When you are talking about the "best" of anything, that claim must be qualified subjectively. Every diver out there in the world has his or her own idea of what is best. We each have our own criteria as to what constitutes the best regulator for us as individuals.

To base the conception of quality entirely on the basis of retail price of any product is dishonest. ScubaPro is not the best. It is just one of the most expensive. If one could delve into SP's manufacturing costs, it would probably come to light that SP spends little, if any, more to produce their products than any other brand. Including HOG. What you are paying for is the name.

When I was a kid, my parents bought me a brand new Huffy Galaxy bicycle for my ninth birthday. Soon after, a boy from up the street got a new Schwinn that cost more than three times as much. It was a three speed with caliper hand brakes, a horn, headlight and a bunch of other fancy stuff. My Huffy had a built-in headlight but was otherwise a rather ordinary bike. My neighbor never lost any opportunity to brag that his Schwinn was three times better than my Huffy because it cost three times as much. He was plagued with brake problems and his brakes needed replacing frequently. I had coaster brakes that lasted the entire ten years that I rode that bike. In any race between us, I always outran his three-speed Schwinn, especially if the route was twisty because my Huffy had superior handling. Who had the best bike? We both did, for different reasons.

What do I think is the best regulator? The Conshelf, hands down. It's based on a proven, well-honed technology; the build quality is excellent; they are utterly dependable and bulletproof; parts are readily available and it is simple to service. I am intimately familiar with the workings of the Conshelf (same as the Titan) and can service one in a couple of ours. I've never had one fail me or give me any problems. They breathe as well as any other reg and the metal second stages don't cause dry mouth like the newer, cheaper plastic ones do. In my eyes, ScubaPro can't touch the Conshelf in meeting my needs. For me, Aqua-Lung is best, but you won't catch me falling for "The Legend is better because it costs more" line of faulty reasoning. The so-called "High End" regulators are marketed toward that portion of the public who enjoy, and can afford, conspicuous consumption. I see a Legend, ScubaPro or other pricey regulator and the first thing that comes to mind is "More money than brains."

Conshelfs are inexpensive to buy on the used market and fiendishly simple to rebuild.

The Edge shares many of the same characteristics of the Conshelf and this is why I chose the Edge Epic for my oldest son. My only complaint with the Edge/HOG regs concerns the plastic seconds. All metal is better. SP makes a metal second but, as usual, the price is inflated.

What this all boils down to is that ScubaPro is not the best. Neither is any other brand. Which one is best is purely subjective and this is why the Beav has been unable to quantify and prove his assertion that SP is the best. On a purely objective level, it isn't the best. It just costs more.
 
\ My only complaint with the Edge/HOG regs concerns the plastic seconds. All metal is better.\

Only the EDGE EXP has a plastic barrel in the second stage, at $240 MAP it is an AMAZING bargain. The EXP is competing at a price point below many unbalanced first stages (the EXP is a balanced diaphragm) and unbalanced/unadjustable second stages (the EXP is balanced adjustable) The EDGE EPIC 2012 ($320 non cold, $250 cold version MAP) has a Brass/Chrome barrel in the second stage and the EDGE TiExtreme ($699 MAP)has a Titanium barrel.

If you really dislike the plastic barrel, tell any EDGE dealer you want to upgrade to a EPIC 212 for the difference in price and that I told them to send me back the old EXP. I'll make it work for all involved.
 
Scubapro always claimed they were the best because the company had a very aggressive campaign for years to hold up such a claim and they did a very good job at protecting this fantasy. Make it impossible for people to get parts, charge an arm and a leg then claim you get what you pay for, and make it mandatory to bring it in every year for free parts. What a perfect scam.

Then the internet comes along and totally demystifies everything about regs because information flows freely like vodka in Russia.
Thanks to pros like DA Aquamaster, Halocline, Awap, and a bunch of others, they have really helped to demystify the whole SP mystique and expose it for what it really is, a lot of really overpriced gear no better than anything else. Prior to the internet dealers had some sort of secret code and they were very tight lipped about all aspects of the workings of Scubapro.
Some of them still try to keep secretive and it's hilarious. I feel like telling them, hey man you can stop now with the games the cat's out of the bag.
 
To my mind, this thread (and a suprising number of other regulator threads) is a classic display of the effects of Cognitive Dissonance. I like this sentence from Wikipedia
"A general view of cognitive dissonance is when one is biased towards a certain decision even though other factors favour an alternative".

When people have invested in a particular belief system, they feel particularly uncomfortable when presented with evidence that challenges that belief. So they argue against it to try to prove to themselves that they are in fact correct, and that the others are wrong. The more they are invested in a particular system (i.e their livelyhood, or their reputation in advice they have given over the years) the harder they will rebell and argue against anything or anyone that present evidence that undermines that system.

I may not know about regulators, but I do know about moderating forums, and this effect is the underpinning principle behind the "fanboi" effect you see, where people will defend their product of choice against all rational argument. Because to accept that maybe the opposing side has valid points, means that they in effect are wrong, and that their previous decision tree was in some way flawed. I have found that people with IT, Engineering, and Military backgrounds are the worst offenders, whereas scientists and doctors are the least likely to exhibit this behaviour - i'm guessing the latter are specifically trained to accept that they can be wrong and to embrace it, while the former are taught to defend their decisions.

Anyway, I guess the point is, there will never be any kind of consensus in these threads, because people have too much emotional energy tied up their product choice, and don't recognise the uncomfortable - almost insulting or angry - feeling for what it is: Cognitive Dissonance.
 
Ok. So if money wasn't an issue and a u could get any reg for free; what would be ur top choice?

No need to consider a reg to be a great choice or a top contender because of the price.

Reliability, durability, features, warranty, how it breathes, weight





Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
 
@Oz- I understand your point but I guess I'm the exception despite being IT and former Military. I retired from diving back in 2005 (family illness) and gave away all my gear in 2008. I did this partly so that I could redo all of my previous decisions.
 
Ok. So if money wasn't an issue and a u could get any reg for free; what would be ur top choice?

No need to consider a reg to be a great choice or a top contender because of the price.

Reliability, durability, features, warranty, how it breathes, weight





Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

What ever your LDS will service, as long as it is one of the regs talked about in this thread (Scubapro, Aqua Lung, Apeks, Hog, Edge). Those companies' flagship regs are the top performers. Even though I own a SP reg I would probably switch to a HOG or Edge for my next one. I just love the ability to communicate with the Owner of the company. Also, Chris has shown so much kindness an understanding. You can search the forums and will find that he has offered to take products back and replace them for little to no charge. That is what I really like about these smaller businesses.
 
The MAP is just the Minimum Advertised Price. That just means that a dealer isn't supposed to advertise Edge/HOG regs for a price below that. What the dealer actually sells the regs for is a different matter. The MRP price is that for which the dealer MUST sell the item (within a narrow, defined percentage).

HOG uses MAP.
SP, AL and others use MRP.

I am not sure what Scubapro uses anymore from my understanding you can call a dealer and try to negotiate a better price. When I see Hogs advertised they are always around the same price 109.99 for a second stage and 209.99 for the 32lb singles wing.

---------- Post Merged at 06:34 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 06:15 PM ----------

Beaver Divers really, really loves Scubapro and that's probably why he's one of their top dealers.

You are entitled to your opinion and mine is Beaver Divers is very annoying. I find it sad that you think it is fine for an individual to just use Scubaboard blatantly as a selling tool without giving anything back. Companies like Hog and DSS also use SB as a selling tool but people like Chris and Tobin never come out and say buy Hog or DSS. If you have a question about weighting Tobin would answer it without the sales pitch, Chris is the same, as is Jim Lapenta. I see the Beav as nothing but a troll.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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