How Can We Keep Divers Diving After Certification?

[bleeb]

As the big gear sale occurs after OW, there isn't much in diver retention for the LDS either. Long time divers just don't need a lot more gear.

This sentiment has been nagging me for a while, especially since this thread and its siblings started up. While I see a large element of truth to it, I'm also wondering whether there are some significant gaps around the edges, at least around here in the colder end of the continent.

In this area, I've gotten the impression that for those diving locally and buying the bulk of their own principle gear, purchases generally seem to fall into four lumps:

1) Personal gear (mask, snorkel, fins, boots): Around the time of initial certification.

2) BC/regs/wet suit/gloves/hood: Maybe not all at once, but usually considerably more than the first lump, if everything is bought new. Probably the majority stop after this.

3) A pair of tanks: A less common purchase, but the price can be a significant fraction of the second lump. Or more than the second lump, if the tanks are steel and the other gear was economical. Not uncommon for people to have been at it for a few seasons before committing the funds.

4) Dry suit: Probably the rarest of the four. Depending on personal preferences, a new dry suit can be the single most expensive piece of gear most people have, and it can also end up being the single most expensive lump. Interestingly, after a few or ten years, people that are still diving are looking to replace them, either because they've gotten sufficiently fed up with some feature, or because too many materials have started to wear out.

So the latter two lumps tend to be purchased only after a few years, generally by people who've already found themselves committed to the activity. They're somewhat more knowledgeable than the new OW diver. And suits with lots of insulation capacity need periodic replacement, whether wet or dry. Over all, the dollar value per transaction is significant although the total quantities are lower.

Anyone else care to comment how total dollar values might line up in their area?

 

[cloudswinger]

This sentiment has been nagging me for a while, especially since this thread and its siblings started up. While I see a large element of truth to it, I'm also wondering whether there are some significant gaps around the edges, at least around here in the colder end of the continent.

In this area, I've gotten the impression that for those diving locally and buying the bulk of their own principle gear, purchases generally seem to fall into four lumps:

1) Personal gear (mask, snorkel, fins, boots): Around the time of initial certification.

2) BC/regs/wet suit/gloves/hood: Maybe not all at once, but usually considerably more than the first lump, if everything is bought new. Probably the majority stop after this.

3) A pair of tanks: A less common purchase, but the price can be a significant fraction of the second lump. Or more than the second lump, if the tanks are steel and the other gear was economical. Not uncommon for people to have been at it for a few seasons before committing the funds.

4) Dry suit: Probably the rarest of the four. Depending on personal preferences, a new dry suit can be the single most expensive piece of gear most people have, and it can also end up being the single most expensive lump. Interestingly, after a few or ten years, people that are still diving are looking to replace them, either because they've gotten sufficiently fed up with some feature, or because too many materials have started to wear out.

So the latter two lumps tend to be purchased only after a few years, generally by people who've already found themselves committed to the activity. They're somewhat more knowledgeable than the new OW diver. And suits with lots of insulation capacity need periodic replacement, whether wet or dry. Over all, the dollar value per transaction is significant although the total quantities are lower.

Anyone else care to comment how total dollar values might line up in their area?

We never got to lump 4. Tanks are relatively cheap around here, especially used ones. There always seems to be people selling off gear. Lots of barely used gear available, and in an area where there's plenty of opportunities to dive. But I know of people who never go to the beach even when that's the main defining feature of Florida.

 

[drbill]

For some reason I've been unable to log onto SB from home, so I'm just catching up on it from our local library.

Certainly once one buys their initial gear package, they may not purchase other gear for some time. I don't see gear sales being critical to maintaining the dive shop's solvency (I could be VERY wrong on this). Besides, gear ties up a fair bit of $$$ to inventory.

I think dive shops would survive better on classes such as the ones I've suggested and those offered by others. Low overhead costs in most cases.

 

[Sas]

I'm a n00b that was certified in March and never actually had any intent to go beyond OW, but due to the generosity and graciousness of our LDS (Padi guys), I've since completed AOW, Nitrox, Night and am in the process of DPV, Rescue and a couple of other certs as I'm well on my way to "Master Diver".

Yes, I fully realize that just because I have a c-crad that says that, that it isn't so, but for all intents and purposes, I wil be by the time I finish up these classes, because my ultimate goal is Tech.

The way in which our LDS strives to keep people diving, is to make certain that we have an opportunity to dive as much as humanly possible, for little to no costs other than our air fills, and they don't even care if we get them at the shop or at the marina where they keep their boat. Nearly every weekend, they take their dive boat out regardless of whether they have students or not. Not only is the boat free to get on, but these guys always provide lunch for everyone too... The only thing they ever do is place a tip jar and most of the time it is someone like myself that actually puts it out because the owners/instructors or DM's don't want anyone to feel obligated in any way shape or form, and they REFUSE to accept personal tips. The jar is only to assist with boat upkeep and fuel costs. Furthermore, 9 times out of 10 they don't even charge us for air through the shop!

They do however have rules on the boat which state that a diver may not over dive theior certs, so if the boat is out at night and you're not certified as a Night Diver, then you must remain onboard unless an instructor is present and willing to do an "Adventure Dive" or even more often that not they will put you through the requisite paces for the requirements of the class and slowly take you through the process if that's the manner you prefer. -- I personally went the traditional class route rather than the slower method.

These guys go out of their way to make diving as fun as possible, and are even going so far as to hold a drawing for an all expenses paid 5-day live aboard trip to the Bahamas + $300 spending money for anyone who completes Master Diver through their shop this year. They are not even requiring that all of the requisite PADI classes be taken through them, just that you complete the program through them.

For many of us that have taken a more active role as new divers that are obviously intrested in progressing further and further, they have even been known to provide many of us with in-store credit at a time where "credit" is a thing of the past... They are willing to tie up their own money for the benefit of us, so that we don't have to bite off such a huge chunk at a time!

They regularily have slide shows of trips in the shop after hours, and provide horderves and beverages to everyone that shows up to socialize.

I have just reently purchased a pair of scooters (not through them) which I'm keeping at their shop so that they may use them for their own purposes such as training more students and as a tool to keep others wanting to spend more and more time playing while blowing bubbles. I was interested in a speargun because a couple of my buddies spar, so the owner of the shop asked me what I wanted then handed it to me along with his personally preferred choice accessories then simply added it to my bill without ever asking for a dime at the time. When I made a payment a couple of weeks later, I saw that my bill was actually far less than what it should have been based upon the price tags in the store, so I asked him about it... He grinned and replied that he must have hit a key wrong, but that's it's too dificult to add back in the extra amount! ;-)

The first time I walked through the door of the shop last fall I felt as if I was somehow being screwed for whatever reason, but I couldn't possibly have been more wrong and out of line with my rationalization at the time. Being that I too am self employed in a very niche market that is diminishing at the moment, I look to the father and son that own our LDS as being true models of inspiration for how to do things right, because they are more focused on making friends that become divers and their own dive buddies than fleecing the public like so many others do!

-Tim

I went through a simliar thing and have watched others go through their courses quickly such as Master Diver + DiveCon without much just diving in the meantime, and it tends to have the effect of sending people away in my experience. I know I was annoyed after doing Night dive to be allowed to go on shop run night dives, as I realised how useless the course was and how expensive it was. Most of the PADI/SSI style specialties are not necessary and I felt like shops try to push people to do unnecessary courses. For example, the shop I did my OW + AOW through tries to get people to do DiveCon as quick as possible and after speaking to some who've done that they have said it has turned them off diving because they have dived so little for fun and mostly through courses.

Like why is your ultimate goal 'tech'? I see that a lot with new divers and how shops encourage it. This are people with less than 100 dives. What is 'tech'? Why do you want to be 'tech'? I understand having a specific goal that might require technical training (I have always been interested in wrecks, for example) but just a general goal of 'tech'? I know a few people who've moved waay too quickly and burned themselves out.

The other things that you mention sound like great ideas but getting people to do Master Diver is not one of them imho (though that is not what I thought at 50 dives). What I would have liked is mentorship, not formal classes with the barebones of learning and requirements in them. That one reason I got disenchanted with the typical LDS setup, cheap airfills or whatever, and instead joined an independent club.

As to the original question, I think most people just don't like diving enough to do it all the time. Probably the fact that heaps of people get certified makes people think that lots of divers are being driven away by bad weather, or bad training or whatever, and I am sure that is part of it but basically most people just don't want to get that into diving and see it as a thing to do before they die but nothing more. This is the same as most hobbies - I've tried a few dozen of them and they weren't for me, but diving is.

I think too many dive shops annoy people like me and that is problematic. By people like me I mean the ones who do stick around and dive regularly after OW and spend every bit of disposible income they have on diving. They annoy me by trying to charge me double what I can get stuff for at LP, they annoy me by continually trying to get me to do courses like DiveCon or DM 'just because' even though I have no interest in being a commercial DM, because in the past they signed me up to lots of courses that I really could have learned through mentorship. They sacrifice pleasing the ones who do want to keep diving to sell all of their OW students a really overpriced package of equipment before they leave OW or a bunch of specialties to divers who are still in the novelty phase and who aren't going to continue in the sport. Divers who do continue get annoyed at this and move on to LP and independent clubs or dive shops that have been honest about what one actually needs a class for and also priced gear well (I am talking about my local scene here) I guess it is hard to distinguish between the two but dive shops lose out by not taking care of the divers who will stick around.

 

[k374]

i'm a newbie to the sport myself, I enjoy it and hope to keep at it. I think there is a learning curve and many trials when starting out, perhaps if I didn't find a community like this one I would've just given up a long time ago!

One disappointment is that so far I haven't found anything truly spectacular to see under the ocean compared to the effort I have to put in for a dive and what I was hoping to experience. I have dove in Shaws Cove, Laguna Beach which is supposed to be a #1 site here in SoCal but all I saw was dying corals and dead marine life (except a few solitary fishes here and there EVERYTHING else in the ocean was DEAD) which is not exactly what I was expecting, and rather sobering.

I do want to improve my skills and hope to seek out other dive sites that are more interesting so I do have hope but I can see why many would just rather give up if all there is to see is some sand and rough grass.

 

[drbill]

"Dying corals" at Shaws? We have no reef building hard corals here. Were you seeing dying "soft corals" (gorgonians)? Give Catalina a try... generally more life here and better visibility. You'll find plenty of very alive marine life right here in our diver park.

 

[k374]

"Dying corals" at Shaws? We have no reef building hard corals here. Were you seeing dying "soft corals" (gorgonians)? Give Catalina a try... generally more life here and better visibility. You'll find plenty of very alive marine life right here in our diver park.

Probably soft corals. I have been to Catalina actually before, I did like it but wasn't at the dive park. I am going to be there again this week and I hope to see a lot more :cool2:

 

[noreastDIVER84]

I have been certified for about 3 years, and dive locally so my season is rather short. To deal with the short season I have a busy work schedule so I try to get out every weekend, but that doesnt always happen. I have just logged my 31st dive, and will be going tomorrow night which will be the latest in the season I have ever been out. (thanks to a new drysuit) What has kept me diving; besides my own interest; has been the fact that the local dive shop will help me out with purchases whether it be doing better on pricing, letting me have a running tab, or both. My drysuit and related equipment, along with the course has been the best money I have spent for dive equipment. Or I should say am paying for. I got the drysuit that I wanted for $700 off the sticker price, I got my undergarments for about $50 of the sticker price, rock boots for about $100 off the sticker price, ankle weights were tossed in along with a no charge on the course because I had done some work for them. I dont think I have paid full price on anything because I am a loyal customer to them. I refuse to buy off the internet.

They also have a dive club that gets you air fills for the season, coupons for the dive boats, and scheduled dives every weekend. Their dives are generally shore dives, but there are weekends where they have two options either the shore dive or a boat dive. They also arrange trips to Brownstone Quarry, Dutch Springs, and we have even gone as far as the St Lawrence river. (for a long weekend trip). They also have about 6 international trips a year that they arrange so that they can get group pricing and everything included in that price (including airfare).

I have yet to do any of their international trips, but have been to Brownstone Quarry, and Dutch Springs along with the local dives I have done.

In my opinion I would say the way to keep people diving it to offer a dive club that has a wide selection of dive options, along with some other benefits such as air fills, and coupons for dive boats.