How much experience does one need before attempting Cavern/Intro to Cave?

[bamamedic]

Hi!

I'm a very new diver (10 dives, if you count my certification dives LOL), and after diving Morrison Springs and Vortex Springs, I've discovered that I am enthralled with the idea of cave diving.
My question is...how much diving experience is considered a good amount before attempting Cavern or Intro to Cave classes? I was thinking that a year of diving experience would be a good idea...
Second...and this is probably a very silly question, but how far can an OW diver go into a cavern before it's considered unsafe? I know that some consider the caverns at some popular dive sites to be pretty safe for OW divers, and a cave diving friend of mine said that the caverns at Vortex are considered pretty safe, but I kind of want to know what the general consensus is. I've went up to the "Danger" sign at both Morrison and Vortex, but no farther. Is that considered OK? Please excuse my ignorance....
...and thanks so much for your time

 

[PerroneFord]

Did you see where the sign was placed at Morrison? It's there for a reason. No amount of comfortability will prepare you for what could go wrong in a cavern environment. Taking a cavern class is probably a great thing to do once you get your buoyancy squared away. But there's a pretty good leap from cavern to cave.

 

[do it easy]

I've never been to the danger sign in those systems, but I would guess that they mark the start of the cave zone. As an OW diver with 10 dives, you really shouldn't even be looking at those signs, much less, be in an overhead environment.

As far as when you will be ready, it is not based on the number of dives, but your skill level. You could be a natural diver and be ready sooner. You could be a danger to yourself and never be ready.

Caves, like any overhead environment, are very unforgiving. They look beautiful and innocent, but they can turn cruel and deadly almost instantly. You should respect the danger, even if you aren't aware of it yet. Just because other people do it and survive is not a substitute for training and experience.

 

[DIR-Atlanta]

There is no such thing as a "safe" cavern. There are, however, caverns where Openwater divers are allowed to enter without being Cavern or Cave certified. In most cases, these are "bright" caverns (i.e. white limestone) with good natural lighting, decent flow, and a clear view of the exit from almost any place inside. Beyond the Prevent Your Death sign is usually considered the Cave zone, due to absence of light, depth, or other factors. Even if you stay on the Openwater side of that, it is still possible to get in trouble, even in those types of caverns.

As far as whether it is "OK" - there are no SCUBA police, so you are left to your own devices to determine what you do or don't do on a dive. My personal feeling is that people who are interested in diving in overhead environments should be properly trained first. This is because Openwater divers have a very poor safety record in caves. In fact, the number one direct cause of most underwater cave fatalities in the last 50 years or so is LACK OF TRAINING. I recommend that if you are interested in doing this type of diving, then you should get trained first - at least then you will have some idea of when you are getting yourself in trouble.

As far as when to take it - I took my Cavern diver course at about the same point in my diving career where you are now (10-15 dives). I did not have much diving experience, and my skills and buoyancy were terrible. I actually failed the class the first time around and had to come back two weeks later to do a couple more dives. From that standpoint, I probably took the course a little earlier than I should have.

However, I took so much away from that class that it changed my diving forever. I learned proper propulsion techniques, good buoyancy and trim, air planning and buddy skills, and much more. So even though I did terrible in the class and had to go back to finish it, I am glad I took it when I did. At least I had not developed many bad habits that I would have to unlearn later.

I once knew a Cave Diving instructor (now retired) who used to say that "A Cavern Diver course is the best Openwater training there is". I tend to agree with that sentiment - go ahead and take it now if it interests you. Just be prepared to struggle a bit and work hard at the skills.

 

[bamamedic]

Thanks for your answers...I appreciate the advice. I'd like to take Cavern this summer, if I have the time, especially since it doesn't require any expensive gear changes. I think I can manage to stay away from the caverns until then LOL

 

[TSandM]

I empathize with your budding addiction.

I got hooked on the idea of cave diving less than six months after I got certified, and I've spent the last two years working on becoming a good cave diver. There's a LOT you can do in open water to get ready. I worked a lot on buoyancy and trim -- a goal was to be able to hover, in a horizontal position, for more than 30 seconds without moving ANYTHING. Not a fin tip or a hand . . . and it can be done. I learned to dive a cave configuration with a long hose and bungied backup, and I learned to do S and valve drills in open water before I went in the overhead. As a result, my cavern and Intro classes had only one challenge in them, and that was following the line in a blackout, which is something that's hard to simulate in open water.

I'd also suggest diving a LOT in local water, and the big reason for that is that, if you dive long enough, you'll encounter a few problems, and learn how you react to them. You don't want to find out if you calmly approach issues underwater or if you tend to get anxious and freaked out, when you're several hundred feet back in a cave.

Best of luck to you. Cave diving is amazing and very powerfully addictive.

 

[MBH]

Bamamedic2.0, that's a good question. The correct answer is; You may not enter an overhead enviornment without the proper training. In accepted accident analysis the #1 cause is "Lack of training". That's strike one. Care to go for strike two?

 

[DIR-Atlanta]

I'd like to take Cavern this summer, if I have the time, especially since it doesn't require any expensive gear changes.

To follow up on this comment and TSandM's excellent observations ...

Even though they advertise that a Cavern course can be taken in "standard" Openwater gear (whatever that is), I think you will probably want to spend a little time prior to your course, investigating some alternative gear configurations. Most people who choose to undertake this kind of diving will eventually switch to some kind of backplate and wing type of gear. It may seem counter-intuitive right now, but all this "complicated" Cave diving is done using a very simple harness-style BC. If you decide to get one before your course, it will help you a lot with things like buoyancy and trim, as it provides a much more stable platform than a traditional jacket style BC.

You will also need a primary light, one or two backup lights, a safety spool (not a "reel"), and a few other odds and ends. You might want to look into using a 5 or 7 foot hose - it's not strictly necessary to use a longer hose in a Cavern class, but it will make the air sharing drills a lot easier.

Since you have some time before your class, start reading up on the kind of gear that Cave Divers use, and see if it makes sense for you to start moving in that direction now. If so, then you will have time to acquire the gear and practice with it some before your class starts. That will no doubt make your experience in the class go a lot more smoothly.

 

[bamamedic]

Yeah...I'm getting the impression that I was in a bit over my head, so to speak. I've no desire to wind up another statistic, so I'll just stay out of the caverns until I've got the appropriate training. I might just have to take that cavern course sooner than later, though

 

[karstdvr]

cave diving friend of mine said that the caverns at Vortex are considered pretty safe,

Vortex's "safe" cavern has claimed quite a few OW divers