How much experience does one need before attempting Cavern/Intro to Cave?

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

so I'll just stay out of the caverns until I've got the appropriate......

Good thinking. The life you save may be your own.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Morrison's sign is in OW, before you drop down to the main cavern entrance. You did nothing wrong by going down to it. The actual cave entrance was blown at Morrison a long time ago, so its basically just cavern now - unless someone wanted to no mount down the vent or something...

Vortex's "safe" cavern has claimed quite a few OW divers

I'm pretty sure the deaths at Vortex were in the cave itself, well past the sign within the cavern - maybe I'm wrong? The cavern is short and very open, more of an overhang than anything else.

 

[Dive-aholic]

You need to have near perfect buoyancy in a horizontal trim while being able to task load if you want to get anything out of a cavern course. Sure you can do it without that and even pass, but it's not to your advantage. To name some of the caverns where OW divers are allowed: Ginnie Ballroom, Paradise Springs, Blue Grotto, Devil's Den, Vortex Springs, Morrison Springs. I have heard of deaths occurring in at least 3 of these. The issue is if something happens you can't just go to the surface (not that you should even in OW). Dive a lot and get your buoyancy and trim perfected. Consider buying a back plate and wing with a long hose regulator. Yes, a jacket style BCD works in a cavern, but it's not optimal. Besides, if you want to eventually get cave trained, you should at least have that much. Dive as much as you can between now and the summer. Come down to Florida and we'll do some dives in the springs and work on buoyancy and trim. Once your buoyancy and trim are decent, I'll take you on a guided dive of the Jackson Blue cavern. You think Vortex and Morrison are beautiful.....

 

[bamamedic]

Sweet! I just might take you up on that

 

[DIR-Atlanta]

I'm pretty sure the deaths at Vortex were in the cave itself, well past the sign within the cavern - maybe I'm wrong? The cavern is short and very open, more of an overhang than anything else.

I am aware of the details surrounding two fatalities at Vortex, because I know the guy who did the recoveries. He was one of my Cave diving instructors (but not the one whose Cavern class I failed, and not the instructor that I quoted above).

In one case, the diver (who had only a single tank) managed to squeeze himself into an opening that was not passable with doubles. The diver got stuck in an area that was not easily seen from the main line, and ran out of air. He was actually missing for some time before the body was found. The recovery required the use of sidemount gear.

In the second fatality, some guy from up north came down with his thick wetsuit and 30 lb weight belt, which he did not bother to adjust for the conditions. He lost his weightbelt in the cave, rocketed to the ceiling, and could not swim down against the positive buoyancy of the wetsuit to retrieve his belt. This incident was particularly memorable to my instructor friend, because he was actually on-site at the time, teaching a Cavern class. They came over and got him out of class to come look for the missing diver (which he found right away). Talk about setting an example for your students!

I believe that both divers were diving solo, and were in the Cave zone without proper lights or redundancy (not that having extra lights or backup reg would made any difference in the outcomes).

 

[TSandM]

Man, that second story gives me a new insight into why the Zero Grav guys are so anti-weightbelt.

 

[Peter Guy]

I'm TSandM's husband and did not share her desire to go diving in caves. However, being a dutiful husband I did "go along" with her in getting training to prepare me for eventually going into the overhead environment.

Not to be a wet blanket (well, actually yes, to be a wet blanket), I'd urge you NOT to do a cavern tour or take a cavern class for quite some time. It is highly likely you have a lot of basic skill work to do before attempting even the most basic overhead environment.

While I'm NOT a fan of GUE, I will confess that DIR-F is a class that can help you learn the basics needed for a safe entry into the overhead. I believe there are other ways of also learning those basic skills but Fundies is the only class I know of that concentrates on them.

I took a Cavern Class in October with my wife and a 3rd person. Because of our prior training (about 18 months of different classes and LOTS of dives, both "skills" dives and pure recreational dives) the class was a breeze. That is NOT true for the 3rd person who was introduced to no-mask swims, long hose deployment, stable horizontal trim, etc. for the first time IN the class.

Take some time and learn about diving. Then, when "simple" diving is routine (and doesn't require much "bandwidth" to maintain position and situational awareness) go ahead and step up to the overhead environment.

 

[bamamedic]

Hmmm...well, you've all given me a lot to think about.

Thanks for the responses...

 

[DIR-Atlanta]

Man, that second story gives me a new insight into why the Zero Grav guys are so anti-weightbelt.

That's actually not the most horrific "lost weight" story I have ever heard. I once had the opportunity to attend a Recovery Clinic taught by the late Henry Nicholson. Henry is the person for whom the "Nicholson Tunnel" in Peacock is named, and he served as the first Program Director of the IUCRR. Henry probably did more cave recoveries during his lifetime than any person before or since, and always had a lot of informative (and heartbreaking) stories to share.

One story in particular involved a recovery that he did at Blue Springs in Deland, FL. The cave at Blue Springs is a vertical solution tube that extends down to a depth of about 120 feet, where the full force of the first magnitude spring issues from a small opening. Across the opening is a large limestone slab which further restricts the vent size (and increases the flow). You can see a drawing of the cross-section here.

It seems that some fellow was determined to find out what was on the other side of the opening, but could not manage to swim or pull himself through the restriction, due to the force of the flow. So he decided to come back with a large concrete block attached to a rope. He lowered the block through the hole, and then pulled himself hand over hand through the opening. At that point he lost his grip on the rope, and then the force of the flow pinned him to the underside of the limestone slab. He was not able to free himself, and drowned.

When they called Henry in to do the recovery, he faced many of the same problems as the deceased diver. He could not pull the body out from the top side, and was not willing to go through the hole himself to get some additional leverage. He tried every thing he could think of to get the body out, but nothing worked, and he almost resigned himself to telling the family that the recovery would be impossible.

Finally he hit on an idea. He borrowed a pruning saw on a long pole, and snaked it down through the hole, where he was finally able to cut the straps on the diver's BC and pull him (and then his gear) out.

So yeh - losing a weight in a cave is usually not a good thing.

 

[timle]

Peter nails it. My wife and I have not taken DIR-F. We did however work on buoyancy and trim prior to class. We were comfortable with our long hoses and other gear (it was not new on the first day of class). It was about 2 years from OW cert to Intro to Cave cert. But of course 2 years to a vacation diver is a handful of dives, so its not time but number of dives and working on skills. 100+ dives seems somewhere near correct.

My biggest problem due to lack of formal training was the frog kick. I thought I knew how to frog kick. I was wrong and doing it wrong. Unlearning something is hard - but more than that I am not very good at the frog kick - especially the modified frog kick. DIR-F or formal/informal mentoring by a trained pro/knowledgeable person would have let me known that and work on it. Instead I had to try very hard in open water before we got into the cavern to correct the kick. Then work on it that night. Then concentrate on it every dive of the class. Even with all that my frog kick wasn't great at the end. I can do it and it doesn't silt up the joint - its just not finished quite right and I don't get the power I should - leading to kicking more often and using more air.