How to do that pesky back finning thing

[Progen]

I think I've got it although more practice will be good so that it'll be something I can summon subconsciously when needed.

With the sidewall method, I picture my fin tips drawing complete circles and with the fin tip method, I have to bear in mind to relax my ankles during the loading phase so as not to negate the backward stroke.

 

[Quero]

I was on a dive yesterday at a site called Blue Heron Bridge in Florida. The tidal current was picking up, and we were getting towards the end of the dive around some pylons in the area that I was checking out. I needed to back up AND turn in one movement, and without thinking about it simply did a back kick with only one foot. I must have done this thousands of times but never noticed it before (it was automatic and precise, so it can only be something I have done many, many times), but for some reason it suddenly struck me as so useful a manoeuvre that I thought I'd just mention it here. Maybe it was this thread in my subconscious making me more aware.

 

[boulderjohn]

I was on a dive yesterday at a site called Blue Heron Bridge in Florida. The tidal current was picking up, and we were getting towards the end of the dive around some pylons in the area that I was checking out. I needed to back up AND turn in one movement, and without thinking about it simply did a back kick with only one foot. I must have done this thousands of times but never noticed it before (it was automatic and precise, so it can only be something I have done many, many times), but for some reason it suddenly struck me as so useful a manoeuvre that I thought I'd just mention it here. Maybe it was this thread in my subconscious making me more aware.

Andrew Georgitsis of UTD now teaches that the helicopter turn is just a back kick with one foot.

 

[beanojones]

Thanks for pointing out the two approaches because I did notice that some divers didn't dig their fins diagonally and scoop whilst others had a very pronounced angle to their fins prior to the power stroke.

---------- Post added June 21st, 2013 at 12:43 AM ----------

Ok, I've discovered something to negate the push pull effect. After I've kicked out and back, to prevent the fins from pushing me forward as I load, all I have to do is to relax my ankles so that the water just passes over or past the fins. Still doing the same mistake of not scooping parallel to the bodyline though. Back to the pool in a few days time!

Please remember the little things you are noticing, and keep in mind that little things are usually the hang up point for diving no matter what the skill.

When you become and instructor (and you should become an instructor), remember it is the little coaching points that make better divers.

 

[Progen]

Please remember the little things you are noticing, and keep in mind that little things are usually the hang up point for diving no matter what the skill.

When you become and instructor (and you should become an instructor), remember it is the little coaching points that make better divers.

I pay attention to little things and when I teach something, I try to teach based on experience and come up with something which the student can relate to immediately so that the learning process leapfrogs suddenly.

During the process of learning the back fin, I found out about the reverse helicopter kick when I was throwing tantrums underwater for not being able to get it right.

ps. And thanks for the encouragement, beanojones.

 

[FinnMom]

I had weeks of difficulty that were probably related to not being genuinely horizontal. My back kick in the slight head-up position tended to always make me go up, not back.
I found it helpful to actually climb up and lie on a picnic table to get a feel for what it felt like to be genuinely horizontal from chest to knees. One fine day, after weeks of trying have definitively proven that it simply cannot be done, the back kick will start to work for you.

 

[Progen]

I had weeks of difficulty that were probably related to not being genuinely horizontal. My back kick in the slight head-up position tended to always make me go up, not back.
I found it helpful to actually climb up and lie on a picnic table to get a feel for what it felt like to be genuinely horizontal from chest to knees. One fine day, after weeks of trying have definitively proven that it simply cannot be done, the back kick will start to work for you.

If your head was up and yet you tended to go up when trying to fin backwards, that'd mean either your back was overarched and your head not as high as you thought (if there's such a word) or your loading stroke was pushing you upwards.

In my case, lying on the chair or bench didn't work because I started off my first few months with (initially) buoyant fins (which then became a little negative when I swapped to steel straps) so I developed a slightly bad habit of having my arse too high. I think I may experiment with a few friends to just swim for a minute or two in what THEY assume to be horizontal and then correct from there.

 

[boulderjohn]

I had great success today teaching the back kick to a student who only got his OW certification a month ago. He said what really helped him the most was when I went behind him and physically manipulated his feet in the proper motion. We moved backwards together with just the propulsion supplied by my hands moving his feet. He said that enable him to actually feel his legs and feet dong what they had to do, and they made him feel what he was doing wrong before.

 

[Progen]

I think the perfect self training environment will be a pool with mirrors on the side where divers can check their trim, equipment streamlining and finning.

<starts dreaming about what he can learn in such a place>

 

[tracydr]

Does anybody have a good way to attach mirrors at the bottom of a home swimming pool? And what kind of mirrors should I use?