I think I have been "had" just a bit

[Paladin]

I see a lot of those old AL80s on Ebay and people are paying $50 and up for them. I imagine many of the bidders are buying them for paintball tanks and are unaware that they are buying substandard tanks. If I were going to buy an AL80 off Ebay, it would be a Catalina only, as they have never used the inferior alloy. I have a '91 Catalina that is as good as new, even after sitting in my garage for 14 years with 500 PSI in it.

Personally, I would not buy any Luxfer AL80 tank made before 1990 nor any Walter Kidde AL80 at all as these were made from the inferior alloy. Even though Luxfer switched to the better allow in late 1988, I would still use 1990 as the cutoff date. Catalinas of any vintage are fair game.

The seller probably asked only $15 for the tank because he had spent the money for hydro and vis only to find out he could not get the darned thing filled.

 

[Garrobo]

I don't know af anyone with any credibility who would fill a Luxfer tank manufactured before 1988. Catalina? No problem.

 

[ScubaInChicago]

Maybe the OP can clarify, did he pay $15 for the tank, or the new VIP. If it was the new VIP, how much was the tank?

 

[PhilEllis]

They are either idiots or charlatans.

So, even if the second shop wanted to PERSONALLY make sure there were no cracks in the neck to protect themselves and their employees, they still have to be either idiots or charlatans?

Two lessons: 1) why buy an AL tank made before 1990, unless it was free? They are pretty cheap to begin with and if you paid more than $0.00 you were had on the tank as well.

So, if anyone who refuses to fill these tanks or anyone who insists on their own personal inspection prior to filling are idiots or charlatans......what makes these tanks a bad buy unless they are free?

Phil Ellis
www.divesports.com

 

[Jim Lapenta]

There are two hydro places locally that will not inspect any al scuba tank made before 1990. Regardless of Luxfer or Catalina. One has adopted the policy of no al tank older than 15 years. So in 2009 a tank made in 94 will not be accepted for testing. But they have no issue with my steels from 53 and 55. If a shop requires an eddy or other visual before they will fill it is their policy. It is my choice as to whether to accept it or not. If not then it is my problem not theirs. If everything else is good with them just figure on using them from now on knowing that they are thorough and will not take chances. Might be a good place to take your regs as well for service unless they are outrageous on costs.

 

[Nemrod]

So I got a used scuba tank that had just been hydro'd and Visual within the past couple weeks. The only thing was it was made is 84, other then that it was a good deal and in great condition

Well, I took it a dive shop to have it filled and the guy told me they wouldn't fill tanks made before 88' because of some material in the tank that they have heard of issues with. OK fair enough, I wanted to say whats the point of hydro then, but I quickly took my tank to the next shop and the last shop lost my business.

Well when I got there, I asked them if they would fill a tank made before 88', and they said probably not. They checked out my tank and said they would in fact fill it, but it would need to have another Visual Inspection, they said because they didn't trust the other agency.

I thought, ok, whatever I need this thing filled, so when I came back to pick up the tank, I assumed it passed the visual because they filled it for me.

I really wanted to ask the guy "You essentially just charged me for something that I already knew"

Especially since they didn't even put some sort of visual inspection sticker on it...

Anyways, has anyone heard of this, or was I just taken advantage of a little

There are many shops, especially in Florida, that simply will not fill them, PERIOD. Aluminum 80s are cheap enough, buy yourself a couple of new ones and be done with it.

N

 

[JahJahwarrior]

Any shop that refuses to fill a tank made of 6061 alloy that has passed visual inspection and hydro, might deserve the anger of Colliam. However, I would never, ever claim that a shop that refused to fill a cylinder made of 6351 alloy is trying to cheat someone.

The shop has every right to want to VIP the tank themselves, but they should have given you a new sticker for it.

Were you had? By the shop: only if it is a catalina tank. By the seller of the tank: yep.

Do your research before you buy next time and you can save yourself a world of hurt and a lot of money. I made the same mistake as you 4 years ago, and still think of the $50 I could have not wasted every time I see that tank sitting in the corner of the garage. There are tons of threads on this subject here on Scubaboard.

Better luck next time, but at the very least try to get a VIP sticker from the second shop so they don't hassle you in the future about filling it.

 

[Nemrod]

Aluminum 80 Tank reviews and discounts, Catalina

Often you can find 90s even cheaper.

N

 

[MichaelRyanSd]

So just a follow up on the thread and some things I learned today.

So yes, the tank was made before 88', it was just hydro'd and I am assuming visually inspected at the same place.

The hyrdo on it is Sep 09 VE, now I know the government has said the visual eddy test is done on these older tanks to ensure they are still good to go. Likewise, the VIP sticker is sep 09.

The reason I mentioned the first shop was to set up the story of how I ended up at the second place. Like I said earlier, I will still patron there, and they had nothing to do with this.

Moving on to the second shop, now maybe some of you can fill some light on this for me. The second shop said they would fill it for me, but would have to do another Visual on it because they said the certifying agency has approved some tanks that they shouldn't have, they said the agency ha passed tanks that had dirt and rust in them. Never once did they say it had anything to do with the fact the tank is old and the materials its made of.

I am assuming if they wanted to do there own visual eddy test on it, it would take some time, and if so how long, because I dropped the tank off at 1, and it was ready by 5, I am not sure if that is enough time to run a VE test on it.

Furthermore, when I followed up and talked to my instructor as well as a couple of other shops. They all said there was nothing with the hydro company, in fact they were one of the largest and best in the business. Furthermore, I found out that the Navy here in san diego has a contract with them to do all their hydro's and things of that nature.

So, I think what I am going to do after learning all this is go back in there, and tell them I want my money back, minus the cost of the air fill.

 

[DaleC]

Wow, what a lot of Hooey going on in this thread.

Micheal, if you can post the serial number for your tank and manufacturer (stamped on tank neck) someone here can tell you whether it is made of 6061 or 6351 alloy (step one).

If it is 6061 alloy the first shop was technically wrong to refuse a fill as there are no known problems with that alloy regardless of age. I say "technically" because ultimately every shop has a right to fill or not fill any cylinder they choose for whatever reason they want. The refusal is just not based on any real reason (as long as the tank passes hydro and vis). The second shop did rip you off in a sense because, while they seem to be more open about the issue they should know that with a 6061 there was no need for a second visual inspection.

If the alloy is 6351 the first shop made a personal judgement call (reasonable) considering the concern regarding this alloy and the second shop was within its rights to demand their own visual inspection before they filled it (though I agree they should have put their own sticker on). Some people believe that these cylinders are safe to fill as long as they pass a vis that includes VE testing but they cannot trust that some other shop did the test correctly. If they are willing to do the fill they should have the assurance of their own vis. That is reasonable. Do a google search for 6351 alloy tanks and you can read all about them and the controversy surrounding them. I am keeping my own opinion out of this and just presenting the facts for you.

Good luck.

I just read your last post and don't know what to say about it. Perhaps you should reclarify (with them) why they did the second vis (for your own mind) because if you ream them out they may just refuse to fill your tank anyways and then you will be stuck finding a third shop that may also insist on its own vis. Again, with a 6351 tank, a shop (doing the fills) wanting its own vis is a reasonable expectation.