I was wondering............

[Warhammer]

Explain to me how offering a gift certificate is violating any agreement or cheating? If the manufactor says you charge $500 for that product, then ok charge $500. After the sale turn around give them a $100 gift certificate to be used on another sale, not to be taken off the same sale. How's that cheating? I also think it should be fine to offer free instruction as an incentive of buying gear, what's wrong with that?

"Just makes you want to rush out there and open a shop of your own, doesn't it?"

Nope, not really, cause I would never be able to operate a business where the manufactor chooses the price that I charge. If they want to suggest it, then fine, but if I want to mark it down too 10% above retail then that's what I'll do. So looks like I wouldn't have anything to sale cause they would have all pulled the product.

 

[Rick Murchison]

OK.
A kickback by any other name is still a kickback.
Rick

 

[Warhammer]

A kickback? Ok, guess that's one way of looking at it, but I don't see it that way. I mean, who got cheated here? The shop owner got the sale, the manufactor's price was honored, and the customer got a good deal on the gear. So who was cheated? Seems to me that everyone is happy in this situation except the shop that refuses to compete. You can't blame the customer for seeking lower prices, nor the shop owner for trying to stay in business. And if you think that the customer is going to pay 100s of dollars more just so they can say they paid suggested retail, then you are dead wrong. Sure you'll get uninformed customers to pay whatever you want, but tell them of a shop up the road that sales the same item, for 100s less, with the same service and warranty, and see how long it takes them to ask for directions.

 

[King_Neptune]

Warhammer - the manufactors dictate price and they can't go below it or else they'll lose the distributorship

- - -

Rick - This is the truth

- - -

hmm, interesting ... Seems then that it is quite common knowledge that they are knowingly and willfully, not to mention, illegally, "Price Fixing".


Todays lesson class, is "Price-Fixing Antitrust Class Action Lawsuit"... Lets all say it together ...


=-)

 

[Rick Murchison]

"Price fixing" is when two or more suppliers get together and agree on prices - especially if the objective is to squeeze out the competition, or, once the competition is squeezed out, to raise prices all together in a monopolistic fashion - for example if Scubapro and SeaQuest and Zeagle all got together and agreed to charge a certain price for their stuff. A single manufacturer dictating its retail prices is not "price fixing" in the illegal sense.
Rick

 

[Warhammer]

King, that's what I thought also when I first heard that. I've never seen a manufactor "fix" a price in any other product line. They suggest a price, but dealers are free to charge anything they want for the product in the end, even sell it at a loss, in order to draw customers, if they so choose. But the scuba equipment business seems to be different and has been able to survive doing so. But I agree with you, right or wrong, no matter which side you're on, that's about to change. I'd hate too see all the locals close up because they couldn't compete due to manufactor restraints. But if that happens then you can blame the manufactors for it, not the consumer.

Take the business my wife is in for instance, a travel agency; the airlines, hotels, car rental companies, and etc are killing them. Their doing it by offering the same accommodations at a much cheaper price through online companies like travelocity.com and through their own websites, than they offer to the travel agencies. Why? It's simple, they eliminate the middle man, the travel agency, and get straight too the consumer. That makes profit margins alot higher. They are also cutting the rates they pay travel agencies like there's no tommorrow. Soon they will be a thing of the past, if it continues.

Just for the record. I for one never intended to purchase "life support" equipment, that I wasn't familiar with, online. But I also wasn't going to be price gouged either. Had I not found a shop willing to negotiate the price, I most likely would have bought it in a shop. But you can rest assured it wouldn't have been from first one I dealt with, that's unwilling to service any gear bought from any source other than them.

 

[Nathan]

In response to King's post of when was the last time that a shop sent you over to someone else.

Well A couple of weeks ago I wanted to buy a perticular dive knife and my local scuba shop dosen't carry that model/brand of knife. Greg ( the good old boy behind the counter) found a shop that did carry the knife and even gave me directions to the shop.. After calling over to verify that they had the particular knife that I wanted in stock.. They earned a pretty loyal customer in me for that simple act.


Nathan "Support your local shops" Sipes

 

[Mario S Caner]

Nathan,

Not too long ago when I was working in a shop in Southern California, we were in the habit of doing the above mentioned to assist out customers needs. The catch, as a chain store with mountains of money, we weren't dependant on a single sale, and we did not work on a commission basis.

So, I would make it a point to mention that we weren't motivated to sell gear to make a buck, but to sell the best gear so that they would be safer and more comfortable in the water. But this is not usually the norm.

 

[Tom]

I not sure that negotiating prices is the way we should be going. I don't go a to grocery store and offer them a dime less for a can of peas. If I don't like a grocery store, I will shop at another.

I don't know what the markup is on scuba gear but in my business, non-scuba, there is no room to negotiate. I have to compete with national chains that actually sell items to the public for less than I pay from the factory. I can't mark it up enough to negotiate it back down. I justify the higher prices by offering good service and lots of advice. But it is tough when I spend hours a day advising and designing, then they wave thanks and head for Denver to buy it at Circuit City. Sure enough, they're back in the next day to find out how to make it work cause Circuit City wouldn't help them.

I talk to several people a week that buy mail-order, it breaks, they don't want to take the time or trouble to send a cow-print box back to South Dakota, so they bring it to me. They expect free repairs because it's under warranty. Yeah, but not my warranty.

A guy showed up yesterday with a major-brand item, out of warranty. Didn't buy it from me. He said the dealer he bought it from several years ago actually wanted to charge him for the repairs. He said he figured I could just do it during lunch and it wouldn't cost him anything.

Today a company called and needed a part to finish a job. They asked if I could cut my price because they were on a budget. I bid the whole job a month ago. About $80,000.
(I lost by $10)The part they wanted me to cut my price on was about $90. There was an $8 markup in it. I had it in stock. They didn't buy it. They ordered it from somewhere else. It wiil take 4-5 days to get there to save about $5.

A customer definitly deserves good service and a fair price, but the customer has to expect to treat the shop right too.


Tom
ducking as Jon's discount o-ring zips by his ear

 

[Warhammer]

I don't bargin for prices at grocery stores either. But if I see a product that is $100s more at one place then it is at another, then that tells me that there is alot of markup and I for one just can't justify spending $100s more for the same product, service and warranty just to help the 'ole boy out. I'm also not one to drive across the street to save $1, but I sure will drive an extra 100 miles to save $600, which is about what I saved below the marked price at another shop, not online. If that's cheap, then I guess I'm just cheap. Same goes for any major purchase like cars, homes, land and etc. Surely you don't walk onto a car lot and say I'll take that red one at the sticker price, do you?