Thank you for giving a more academic rationale for not using pneumatic air hose. I guess it still remains to be seen if it is or isn't a safety risk when used to breathe compressed air. When I purchased the hose back in the late 90's price was never any consideration for me. I never thought about it as I never knew the graded hose you speak of was so expensive. or in fact was different. I had asked about what kind of hose to use prior to its purchase and was told by a few folks in the diving community to buy this pneumatic hose in debate here. Some were using it to clean their hulls as that was my initial use for it which then expanded to lobstering and hunting. Funny how it has the same exact yellow color scheme as the Brownies 3rd lung hose. Maybe we were all fooled thinking it was the same stuff. Who knows. So imagine here it is 2010 and the answer is still not clear. Again my experience over 10 plus years tells me that my hose is perfectly okay but I will still defer to the MFG and if it comes back negative I will go and purchase the 100' Grade E stuff for the $1.00/ft. it costs (saw it on a site today at that pricing). No biggie. The I will humbly apologize to YOU!
I would like to make my own hookah setup....is it this simple?
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Spimon
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With this set-up, what does one do about a pressure gauge?
Do you use diving history and take a conservative estimate as to how long you have?
Stay within NDL and CESA when it runs out?
Do you carry a bail out bottle for when the surface tank runs out?
I can't imagine an AI computer would be happy more than a body length from the sender.
Do you use diving history and take a conservative estimate as to how long you have?
Stay within NDL and CESA when it runs out?
Do you carry a bail out bottle for when the surface tank runs out?
I can't imagine an AI computer would be happy more than a body length from the sender.
1. Wait until the air gets a little labored and then make your way to surface. Even at 100' there is plenty of time without rushing
2. Much depends on what I am doing and how excited I might get lobstering or hunting. Generally I breathe very methodically and can extend bottom time to upward of an hour plus on a single tank.
3. yes but for the most part my dives are not affected by decompression limits as I dive above 45' in most cases
4. no
5. ?
2. Much depends on what I am doing and how excited I might get lobstering or hunting. Generally I breathe very methodically and can extend bottom time to upward of an hour plus on a single tank.
3. yes but for the most part my dives are not affected by decompression limits as I dive above 45' in most cases
4. no
5. ?
fstbttms
Contributor
You shouldn't take advice from hull cleaners. We're not very smart.
If you compared the two, side-by-side, you'd see the difference. Even more so if you cut through the hose and inspected the construction. Color is apparently no indicator of grade or intended use when it comes to air hose.
No need. We're just having a discussion and my skin is think enough that I am not easily upset by things that are said in an internet forum. I came on a little strong myself. Plus, because of this thread, I have actually learned a lot about air hose safety as well.
I guess I saw this coming a mile away LOL. Nevertheless I shall continue in my investigation until I am proven right LOL. Your the man fstbttms. I guess that counts as an apology
RE: ATD Tools Web Inquiry: Pneumatic Hose for Diving
From: Jon Lovetto <jlovetto@atdtools.com>Add to Contacts
Corman
Thank you for your interest in ATD Tools.
Our hose is only recommended for automotive and industrial use for use with an air compressor in a shop environment.
We cannot make any recommendations for the purpose that you are using it for, nor can we suggest or imply to you that it is safe to use in such a manner at all.
Thank you,
-Jon Lovetto
Customer Service / Parts Manager
RE: ATD Tools Web Inquiry: Pneumatic Hose for Diving
From: Jon Lovetto <jlovetto@atdtools.com>Add to Contacts
Corman
Thank you for your interest in ATD Tools.
Our hose is only recommended for automotive and industrial use for use with an air compressor in a shop environment.
We cannot make any recommendations for the purpose that you are using it for, nor can we suggest or imply to you that it is safe to use in such a manner at all.
Thank you,
-Jon Lovetto
Customer Service / Parts Manager
fstbttms
Contributor
Thank you for having the honesty to post the reply from ATD even though it did not support your position.
Spimon
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I've been doing a little research since seeing this thread to try to find out the awful truth about hoses. The hoses I've seen advertised specifically for air breathing claim to be made from medical grade PVC whereas the air tool hoses are supposedly made from standard PVC. I've been trying to find out what makes medical grade PVC just so medical grade. Does it have to fit a specific set of rules or can anyone call their PVC 'medical grade' as a marketing tool?
The Hookah hoses are made to comply with the following Australian Standard;
AS2299 - Occupational Diving Operations
I spent a good couple of hours trolling through various standards related to pneumatic hoses, high pressure hoses, low pressure hoses, medical hoses, diving, medical manufacturing and air tools. They all mention hose materials must be 'suitable for the intended application' but none had requirements any more specific than this.
A concerning observation was that some specify extremely specific test procedures and quantifiable requirements relating to mechanical strength (minimum tensile strength, expansion under pressure, etc) flow rate (85 L/min in one case) and chemical resistance (mostly oil and oxygen) but none gave recommendations related to chemical pollution when breathing.
It's entirely likely there is a standard I just can't find related to this.
OK, so very little (if any) diving equipment is probably made to Australian Standards, but do not have access to ISO or any other standards database to this will have to do. Generally Australian Standards meet or exceed ISO standards so I'd have expected that if any standards include chemical pollution statements, it'd be in AS.
But on a much less analytical level, in Australia I can buy a 3/8" x 20m industrial air hose for $41. A Hookah 10mm x 20m breathing hose is $55. For $14 I'd be putting my skepticism aside and buying the one which at least claims to be safe for breathing.
The Hookah hoses are made to comply with the following Australian Standard;
AS2299 - Occupational Diving Operations
I guess item (d) is up to interpretation. Remember, these are standards, not laws. I'd like to hope that not causing the diver to die is a good condition to meet.
I spent a good couple of hours trolling through various standards related to pneumatic hoses, high pressure hoses, low pressure hoses, medical hoses, diving, medical manufacturing and air tools. They all mention hose materials must be 'suitable for the intended application' but none had requirements any more specific than this.
A concerning observation was that some specify extremely specific test procedures and quantifiable requirements relating to mechanical strength (minimum tensile strength, expansion under pressure, etc) flow rate (85 L/min in one case) and chemical resistance (mostly oil and oxygen) but none gave recommendations related to chemical pollution when breathing.
It's entirely likely there is a standard I just can't find related to this.
OK, so very little (if any) diving equipment is probably made to Australian Standards, but do not have access to ISO or any other standards database to this will have to do. Generally Australian Standards meet or exceed ISO standards so I'd have expected that if any standards include chemical pollution statements, it'd be in AS.
But on a much less analytical level, in Australia I can buy a 3/8" x 20m industrial air hose for $41. A Hookah 10mm x 20m breathing hose is $55. For $14 I'd be putting my skepticism aside and buying the one which at least claims to be safe for breathing.
It would be really great if someone could try and source out a supplier of quality air hose at an affordable pricing. Brownies is a very expensive but it seems we don't have any choice. Otherwise try and get a more definitive answer from exisitng and readily available pneumatic hose manufacturers and suppliers. It may very well be that some of the hose they supply is well within the quality standards required by OSHA and other agencies necessary for approval but just have not taken the steps to get it certified as such. I would do it but I am presently in Asia and unable to make these contacts or have conversations as readily as someone based in the USA.
I think it could finally solve this puzzle and end the debate.
I think it could finally solve this puzzle and end the debate.
fstbttms
Contributor
Your LDS should be able to provide Grade-E breathing hose in any length you want, and not the stiff, yellow junk that Brownie's sells (why anybody would buy any of their overpriced crap is beyond me.) But it ain't gonna be particularly cheap, at least not compared to the auto parts store stuff you've been using. But it will be safe and honestly, if you can't afford to dive safely, maybe you shouldn't dive at all.
BTW- no hose manufacturer is going to tell you their hose is safe to use as breathing hose if it hasn't been rated as such. I can see you're still grasping at straws, trying to find a cheap workaround. I think you should just bite the bullet, quit screwing around and buy the good stuff.
BTW- no hose manufacturer is going to tell you their hose is safe to use as breathing hose if it hasn't been rated as such. I can see you're still grasping at straws, trying to find a cheap workaround. I think you should just bite the bullet, quit screwing around and buy the good stuff.
fstbttms
Contributor
Also- craigslist and ebay are also good sources of air hose. But beware- I have seen pneumatic tool hose being sold as breathing hose on ebay. Know what you are buying before you buy it.
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