If you are a new diver, please read this

[MXGratefulDiver]

No argument there.

OK .. who is this, really ... and what did you do with Thalassamania ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[maged_mmh]

 

[Thalassamania]

OK .. who is this, really ... and what did you do with Thalassamania ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

gcbryan just posted something that was reasonable, he does do that.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

gcbryan just posted something that was reasonable, he does do that.

Often ... I have the advantage of knowing the man, and he's very reasonable ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[NudeDiver]

My husband is taking his instructor course right now, and has been told in no uncertain terms that he may NOT teach gas management at the OW level.

Which begs the question - why teach for whatever agency that is (although I think I can guess, and also guess why)?

It certainly seems to me that certifying divers without teaching basic gas management, let alone actively FORBIDDING instructors from teaching basic gas management, amounts to a form of "malpractice."

Stupidity at work, mandated by the agency. It's no wonder why divers continue to die needlessly.

 

[Peter Guy]

ND wrote

It certainly seems to me that certifying divers without teaching basic gas management, let alone actively FORBIDDING instructors from teaching basic gas management, amounts to a form of "malpractice."

Now where did you get the idea that an agency would forbid the teaching of "basic gas management?"

In that wonderful phrase -- "What we've got here is a failure to communicate....."

As far as I know, no agency forbids the teaching of "basic gas management" to any Scuba diving student. But what we DO have is a difference of opinion as to WHAT is "basic gas management" that needs to be taught!

 

[Thalassamania]

To my way of thinking SAC rate calculations are an integral part of basic gas management

 

[Soakedlontra]

I am taking now the AOW class from Bob Grateful Diver and Man! What a difference it makes to learn about gas management and my air consumption rate etc. Until this point I have been lucky that since I have been certified I have been diving mostly with my husband who had some knowledge of gas management and that for the few dives that I have done below 60ft he was able to suggest to follow the 'rule of thirds' because at that time we both did not know how to figure out our SAC and RMV properly and make a dive plan taking those factors into account.

To me it seems rather obvious that the deeper you go the greater is the need to look at your SPG more often that you would do on a 30ft dive, for instance. I guess for other new divers this simple fact is not so straight forward especially when a kind of mental 'laziness' sets in (I have experienced it myself) and you don't think that it is important to monitor your gas consumption rate at different depth because this kind of awareness is not emphasized enough during an OW class.

I strongly suggest reading Bob's info about gas management and don't get intimidated by it. I am not a math genius but by reading the stuff over and over again and starting calculating my SAC and RMV and plan the dive loaded with various calculations instead of simply keep following the 'rule of thirds', is making more and more sense. It is also increases your self-confidence by empowering you to be more 'in control' of your dive before hitting the water.

The agencies are totally irresponsible in stubbornly refusing to teach gas management. They shouldnÃÕ be left to get away with it.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Boulderjohn, do you honestly think that encouraging new divers to read Bob's article and think about their gas supply in more detail is "controversial", or has no place in this forum?

I think ... even with the information that was later corrected ... the original topic was quite valid for new divers.

I do wish, however, that a lot of the "back and forth" exchanges that later came to dominate the thread could have been avoided (or eliminated), as it tends to make people decide to click on some other topic, or skip over things that were pertinent to the topic being discussed.

New divers need to be "exposed" to such "controversial" views as the inadequacy of current agency standards, the history of how we came to this pass, thoughts about how we can get back to adequate training programs, where such programs still exist etc. I'm sorry it that shakes new divers faith in the powers that be ... but that's exactly what needs to be done.

I think that, under the circumstances, it would've been more appropriate to make that discussion it's own thread ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[waynne fowler]

Seems like everybody is very quick to jump to conclusions in this thread. Wouldn't it make more sense to know what actually happened before assuming it had to do with poor instruction? There could be any number of variables that would dramatically change the story.

The bottom line is: we will probably NEVER know the full facts of the case. We can glean from news reports and on site personel what transpired above water. But the only one who knows what happened underwater is the buddy and god. Neither one has been very forthcoming with additional info.

But to take the accident. Disect it as best we can and then start playing with possible scenerios that COULD HAVE led to this outcome, IMO can be very educational. Maybe even moreso, or at least no less than if we were to stick to speaking exclusively about what ACTUALLY DID happen. In our guess work we play out several different possiblilities and may discover some things we've previously never thought of and that the original accident may not have inspired us to talk about.