Sorry to hear your experience. I agree with you that the store should not charge you for the extra day for the rental. I am lucky to have 2 stores near me that are good. Although I havent bought any gear from them, I rented tanks, wetsuits, BCs, etc... from them. 1 time the owner let me rent the gear on a Monday and return it a week later for only the price of a weekend rental because I last time I came on a friday he did not have gear that fit me. The other store let me me borrow a tank for 3 days (from Thrusday to Sunday) without a hastle and charge me for only 1 day. Because of their excellent customer service, when I decide to go dry, I will more likely go to their store. I know their prices a quite a bit over what I can buy on the net (at least 75% over) but I will definetly give them a chance for later gear purchases.
Im done supporting my LDS (my money and I are gone)
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1fastcat
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I don't know what United States of America you folks that are getting your FD air fills from or are buying your own compressor and filling all your buddies, but...County of Los Angeles, and I would imagine every US fire department other than volunteer have regulations that strictly prohibit outside use of any equipment. IT IS CALLED LAWSUIT LIABILITY.
Now those of you buying your own compressor that "have a fiduciary responsibility to your family" well KISS YOUR HOUSE GOODBYE as soon as one of your buddies has a "problem" with your provided air. You would be amazed how fast that "best friends" widow or now parapalegic caretaker is going to sue your ***** off until it bleeds through your nose. And even if you did everything right, a first year law student could convince a jury that your "expertise" is non existent and therefore you "must have done something wrong".
It is a very simple issue in diving - Without LDS to provide air-fills (nice $2 million dollar liability policy plus his home and all of his assets on the line), without LDS to get non-divers interested, without LDS to provide certification courses the sport of diving will become nothing more than a hobby for extremists or vacationers at some exotic location that will never dive again until they take the next vacation.
IF you haven't caught on, more and more of the dive equipment manufacturers have realized the "old world" reality - without local LDS retailers, their customer base is goin g to dwindle into oblivion. You can expect more and more of them to implemnet "Minimum Advertised Price" and "No Internet Sales" policies. SImple self preservation practices.
Those idiots who keep saying "capitalism rules" to to point of believing their own crap about not needing LDS due to the "new market economy" of the internet are completely wrong (that is if diving is to remain a growing or stable, broad supported sport). I'm sure those hardcore LDS haters will find a way to function in a world without LDS, but the reality is that they will become part of a rapidly dwindling group. Good luck on chartering that boat by yourself, or dragging that compressor all over the country.
And finally, no offense to Larry, but one guy opening shops around the country isn't going to solve anything. A chain store is no different than chain restaurants, department stores or franchises, they are only as good as the local manager and workers. Beside, I doubt Larry would be interested in opening a dive shop anywhere else but a "homerun" major population center location. That would leave the remaining 90% of divers throughout the US without this "new market" dynamic service.
Now those of you buying your own compressor that "have a fiduciary responsibility to your family" well KISS YOUR HOUSE GOODBYE as soon as one of your buddies has a "problem" with your provided air. You would be amazed how fast that "best friends" widow or now parapalegic caretaker is going to sue your ***** off until it bleeds through your nose. And even if you did everything right, a first year law student could convince a jury that your "expertise" is non existent and therefore you "must have done something wrong".
It is a very simple issue in diving - Without LDS to provide air-fills (nice $2 million dollar liability policy plus his home and all of his assets on the line), without LDS to get non-divers interested, without LDS to provide certification courses the sport of diving will become nothing more than a hobby for extremists or vacationers at some exotic location that will never dive again until they take the next vacation.
IF you haven't caught on, more and more of the dive equipment manufacturers have realized the "old world" reality - without local LDS retailers, their customer base is goin g to dwindle into oblivion. You can expect more and more of them to implemnet "Minimum Advertised Price" and "No Internet Sales" policies. SImple self preservation practices.
Those idiots who keep saying "capitalism rules" to to point of believing their own crap about not needing LDS due to the "new market economy" of the internet are completely wrong (that is if diving is to remain a growing or stable, broad supported sport). I'm sure those hardcore LDS haters will find a way to function in a world without LDS, but the reality is that they will become part of a rapidly dwindling group. Good luck on chartering that boat by yourself, or dragging that compressor all over the country.
And finally, no offense to Larry, but one guy opening shops around the country isn't going to solve anything. A chain store is no different than chain restaurants, department stores or franchises, they are only as good as the local manager and workers. Beside, I doubt Larry would be interested in opening a dive shop anywhere else but a "homerun" major population center location. That would leave the remaining 90% of divers throughout the US without this "new market" dynamic service.
The Kraken
He Who Glows in the Dark Waters (ADVISOR)
ScubaBoard Supporter
Scuba Instructor
Divemaster
1fastcat,
I don't think that people are saying that they don't want the LDS to survive, I think what they're calling into question is the percentage of markup placed on gear by some shops and the customer service, or lack thereof, that is given.
Case in point, I know of two dive shops here in the greater Atlanta area. They each sell a mask anti-fog called 500psi, or something like that.
One shop charges $6.95 for the 2 oz. bottle and the other charges $9.95 for the exact same item. The same product can be purchased on the internet for $4.95. Do the numbers.
I think one of the problems is the fact the the consumer, given that s/he has the mental faculties to do some elementary reasearch, is mentally offended when asked to pay such high prices on some items.
I mean, does the LDS think the prospective customer is not sufficiently bright enough to do some price checking?
Just my thoughts.
the K
I don't think that people are saying that they don't want the LDS to survive, I think what they're calling into question is the percentage of markup placed on gear by some shops and the customer service, or lack thereof, that is given.
Case in point, I know of two dive shops here in the greater Atlanta area. They each sell a mask anti-fog called 500psi, or something like that.
One shop charges $6.95 for the 2 oz. bottle and the other charges $9.95 for the exact same item. The same product can be purchased on the internet for $4.95. Do the numbers.
I think one of the problems is the fact the the consumer, given that s/he has the mental faculties to do some elementary reasearch, is mentally offended when asked to pay such high prices on some items.
I mean, does the LDS think the prospective customer is not sufficiently bright enough to do some price checking?
Just my thoughts.
the K
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The Kraken:
OK. $4.95 + $3.99 shipping (DiversDirect), + wait a week for it to show up. . . If I need a bottle of defog (assuming I won't just make my own), I probably don't want to miss a week of diving to save a dollar.
Pricing has always been touchy.
Too low and you don't make anything, too high and you don't sell enough and don't make anything.
Too low makes the manufacturer pull the line from you.
Too low makes people suspicous. Too high makes them angry.
Terry
The Kraken
He Who Glows in the Dark Waters (ADVISOR)
ScubaBoard Supporter
Scuba Instructor
Divemaster
I completely agree, Terry!
If you sell just a few, you have to have a high markup.
If you sell a bunch, ya don't.
Just depends upon how much profit is desired.
Kinda like the old marketing concept, the demand is there, it's just that the consumer hasn't been made aware of the fact that he has to have the product.
There does exist the possibility that if an LDS reduces it's markup percentages, the reduction of cost to the consumer will result in growth of sales by increased demand generated by positive response coming from satisfied customers.
Supply, demand, demographics, location, advertising, pricing, marketing, merchandising.
It's really quite simple . . . (detect a note of facetiousness)
the K
If you sell just a few, you have to have a high markup.
If you sell a bunch, ya don't.
Just depends upon how much profit is desired.
Kinda like the old marketing concept, the demand is there, it's just that the consumer hasn't been made aware of the fact that he has to have the product.
There does exist the possibility that if an LDS reduces it's markup percentages, the reduction of cost to the consumer will result in growth of sales by increased demand generated by positive response coming from satisfied customers.
Supply, demand, demographics, location, advertising, pricing, marketing, merchandising.
It's really quite simple . . . (detect a note of facetiousness)
the K
All I want are fair prices and good customer service. Its unfortunate that I can't seem to receive either one from one of my local dive shops. The (one I certified with) So far this year I have purchased a lot of equipment. Because my local dive shop is so nasty regarding pricing I no longer even give them the opportunity. Below is a list of my purchases year-to-date:
$600 for two new HP 120 tanks
$500 for a new Transpac and wing
$100 for a new DUI weight harness
$200 for miscellaneous accessory items
That is $1400 worth of diving equipment I have purchased in the last two months. LDS number one was not even given the opportunity to be competitive because last time he was so irritated he threw my receipt in the garbage after wadding and up.
LDS number two has gotten my business for the last couple items I purchased (the weight belt and some miscellaneous items) and will continue to get my business based on their current performance. I still have two children to outfit, 1-21 years old and 1-17 years old. It may take a while but eventually they will get complete kits.
Hopefully, LDS number two will continue to have a good working relationship.
$600 for two new HP 120 tanks
$500 for a new Transpac and wing
$100 for a new DUI weight harness
$200 for miscellaneous accessory items
That is $1400 worth of diving equipment I have purchased in the last two months. LDS number one was not even given the opportunity to be competitive because last time he was so irritated he threw my receipt in the garbage after wadding and up.
LDS number two has gotten my business for the last couple items I purchased (the weight belt and some miscellaneous items) and will continue to get my business based on their current performance. I still have two children to outfit, 1-21 years old and 1-17 years old. It may take a while but eventually they will get complete kits.
Hopefully, LDS number two will continue to have a good working relationship.
mikerault
Contributor
I purchased 2 used cameras on line, dove with them at least 30 times each, never a leak or issue. Bought a used camera from a LDS I thought I could trust, camera flooded third dive due to a crack in the flash mount attachement that I am sure he knew was there. Needless to say, no more business to them. I have a new one where I will buy small items (lights, reels, etc.) but large stuff I will still go to Ebay and online for.
ChillyWaters
Contributor
1fastcat:
blah blah blah...
Divers need air. Places with enough divers will always have a place to get air fills. Perhaps it won't necessarily be an LDS as we know it, but more of a facility that offers fills, rentals, and small accessories -- perhaps even at a slightly higher price. But, as long as there are divers, we will have a place to get air. Kinda like a your local grocer.
Let's see what the market decides. If Internet stores are doing well at the big purchases, why should we not let them suceed? Local stores will still succeed, but may have to alter their business model slightly. Sounds like you're a bit scared of change.
Don't worry, it will all work out.
- ChillyWaters
Floridawannabe
Contributor
If you read what a lot of us are saying, "We want a LDS like SCUBATOYS.COM" which is a real LDS but also sales on the internet. They give great customer service and they also give great prices. This is the type of LDS we want around us.
I am sorry you think that a lot of us are sue happy, but if I have adive buddy that has a air compressor and I am using it free of charge. I will use it at my own risk. If I am cutting the cost by paying half for the compressor and helping keep up with the cost of maintenance, I use it at my own risk.
As with Larry opening stores all around the United States, he does not have to just his business model and store name. Like say"Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Target, Sears, and on and on" As long as they run it like Larry does they will Go a long way.
I am sorry you think that a lot of us are sue happy, but if I have adive buddy that has a air compressor and I am using it free of charge. I will use it at my own risk. If I am cutting the cost by paying half for the compressor and helping keep up with the cost of maintenance, I use it at my own risk.
As with Larry opening stores all around the United States, he does not have to just his business model and store name. Like say"Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Target, Sears, and on and on" As long as they run it like Larry does they will Go a long way.
1fastcat:
1fastcat
Registered
Hey Florida,
Unfortunately if you die or are a vegetable your "at my own risk" doesn't mean diddly to those who want/need to collect money for your care/loss of income/death. The courts are full of loving brothers/sisters/mothers/fathers/"former best friends" all suing the pants off each other.
As for the "if there is enough local demand for air fills there will be a small shop that will specialize and meet the demand" statement. Duhhhh...and if there was enough demand for a "Terrorists are Our Friends" souvenier stand in downtown New York someone would be able to make money and meet the demand. However, in the real world there is not enough "air fill" demand to justify the cost of the business model (equipment, overhead, labor and insurance costs). Otherwise you, being such an astute entrepreneur would have a passle of them and living the high life.
The point is still the point - without a substantial body of LDS in the U.S. diving is a dead sport with no growth and no hope. Without LDS manufacturers cannot create enough demand for their product to survive, unless they open their own "ScubaPro" shops thoughout the US - Oh but that would be an LDS, but one with no options other than the manufacturers.
Unfortunately if you die or are a vegetable your "at my own risk" doesn't mean diddly to those who want/need to collect money for your care/loss of income/death. The courts are full of loving brothers/sisters/mothers/fathers/"former best friends" all suing the pants off each other.
As for the "if there is enough local demand for air fills there will be a small shop that will specialize and meet the demand" statement. Duhhhh...and if there was enough demand for a "Terrorists are Our Friends" souvenier stand in downtown New York someone would be able to make money and meet the demand. However, in the real world there is not enough "air fill" demand to justify the cost of the business model (equipment, overhead, labor and insurance costs). Otherwise you, being such an astute entrepreneur would have a passle of them and living the high life.
The point is still the point - without a substantial body of LDS in the U.S. diving is a dead sport with no growth and no hope. Without LDS manufacturers cannot create enough demand for their product to survive, unless they open their own "ScubaPro" shops thoughout the US - Oh but that would be an LDS, but one with no options other than the manufacturers.
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