In Coz: You, Your Buddy, Your Group and Your DM. Who should do what?

[Mike]

You know, I was starting to feel prett good about diving until I started to read some of the posts that focus on how dangerous th sport is and how DMs cannot be counted upon to be of much use in an emergency. I am at about 60 dives and have my breath control and buoyancy pretty much under control. I move around by breath control and slight foot movement generally and I am always one of the last to ascend when the dive is set to end based on air usage as opposed to time. I can do a saftey stop and hover between 15 and 20 feet without a line from the boat (although I love boats that drop a horizintal bar in Grand Cayman). I have always counted upon the DM for navigation however. I almost never go back to the same place twice, so I never have familiar surroundings. I just follow the DM and ascend where he or she says to ascend. My wife and I are buddies and perhaps do not stay as close as we ought to although we are always aware of where each other is. She likes ot go very slowly and look at every nook and cranny. I get a bit more impatient and want to travel more distance to see more fish and macro views. I have assumed that with good basic skills and always diving in a no-decompression environment, if worse comes to worse, I can always get to the surface in a hurry with my wife or at least keeping an eye on her too. I even have a loud noidsemaker connected to my BCD hose (it was stupid expensive but I got it as a gift), so if I have a problem I can attract attention pretty easily. But SB has increased my concern. The discusion of CO poisoning is troubling - although a low probability occurence it seems. Now we're discussing downdrafts that are stronger than a swimmer with a full BCD. Add the thought that DMs are not really there for safety or that, even if they are, there is not much they can do, has me wondering if the sport is as safe as I thought it was. I have reassured my elderly mother many times that the sport is safe and you have to do something pretty bad to be unable to surface should an emergency happen. If SB posters are tryign to ensure that people stay vigilant, that is one thing. But I am starting to form a view that the is more danger than I realized and the whole notion of PADI certificaton letting people with 2 dives loose underwater with dive operators who are not there to keep them safe, may make the industry a big frightening scam.

Your post describes myself about 3 years ago. Scubaboard did the same thing to me. I started realizing how much more there was to all this, I started realizing how little I knew, how really dangerous this activity can be. You're going through a metamorphosis right now, transitioning in awareness. The first stage of it is angst which you are feeling because you're having your beliefs rocked a bit. You've been a careful and conservative diver but you're getting some self-awareness that there is even more room for improvement in your technique, sort of taking you a step back. You've got that temporary helpless feeling as you're processing all the new information and awareness.

It's good, it's healthy. On your next dives you'll have a new awareness and start building new skills, you'll be thinking differently and seeing things differently, and be moving on to the next phase where you become a real asset as a diver and to other divers, much safer, much more aware of realities, an awesome buddy to your wife.

As for the dive master, just look at it this way, the less you rely on the dive master the safer you become, if you're totally self-reliant, you've greatly increased the margin of safety for you and your wife, now the dive master becomes a safety cushion to yourselves, an extra measure of safety if you need him.

 

[cvchief]

If you don't have a sausage, what about waving a fin to signal distress? My son had to do that once, years ago, but I've never seen anybody else do it since.

If I may cite the particular case that engendered this discussion--apparently the husband looked/moved away from his wife to tell the DM he was ascending with his buddy. How long was his attention diverted from his distressed buddy? I wonder if a tank banger or quacker would have been helpful? I know a lot of people don't like them and there are people who abuse them--we use them to communicate with each other, since there are three of us, an awkward number, and we dive a lot by ourselves (Bonaire). But we were the only ones who had them in various groups on our last trip to Cozumel.

WOW. GOOD POINT the fin wave. My DM does that. Which is another reason that slingshots are the best fins. Those split fins are all floppy. They can't be good to wave!

I don't know that signalling would have helped from what little we know. It strikes me that when a new diver is heading up, they tend to be freaked out about something. If there was panic involved, who knows?

I am in perpetual pursuit of the perfect underwater signalling device. I figure it is a big safety item as well as a utility item. We tend to use them to share discoveries. Started with a rubber strap and ball tank banger. It was a pain to move tank to tank and to reach for and all. Got a rattle. Not the best and too low tech. Ordered one of those flashlight looking electronic noisemakers. Worked great if you hit someone in the head to get their attention. By sound alone, not so great. Saw the wrist mounted button job. It also wasn't great in function, though it was cool looking. Got a nice aquatec underwater horn, my quacker on my bc. The nice yellow button fell off. (Keep an eye out. I think it was on Francesca) So I am shopping again. Thinking of the new Dive Alert V2 which has the surface air horn too. That seems like a good idea.



I have to admit I got a bit of a Batman complex. I saw a, I guess, a cave or tech two tank BC sitting in a panga at Palancar pier one day. I *guess* they were drying it? It had about a BILLION things hanging on it. I saw little scissors and magnifying glasses and flashlights and all sorts of tools and such on lil strings. Now that is prepared for anything. I think I would have to inflate it, push it off the boat and then dock with it to dive. I doubt I could stand with it on. Must weigh a ton.....

 

[diverrex]

When we did our first trip Cozumel a few years ago my wife had 36 dives and I had 106. My wife was apprehensive about the currents and drift diving so the first two days (4 dives) we hired a private DM until she felt comfortable. I am always surprised how many people don’t do this. Considering how much a dive trip costs in total it’s a relatively small added expense and it does help in becoming oriented to local conditions. We also only use boats with relatively few divers, usually less than 10. In Coz we used a quality 6 pack dive op. Even with only 6 divers it was relatively easy (and often desirable) to become somewhat separated from the DM so we of course realized we were on our own.

 

[cvchief]

Your post describes myself about 3 years ago. Scubaboard did the same thing to me. I started realizing how much more there was to all this, I started realizing how little I knew, how really dangerous this activity can be. You're going through a metamorphosis right now, transitioning in awareness. The first stage of it is angst which you are feeling because you're having your beliefs rocked a bit. You've been a careful and conservative diver but you're getting some self-awareness that there is even more room for improvement in your technique, sort of taking you a step back. You've got that temporary helpless feeling as you're processing all the new information and awareness.

It's good, it's healthy. On your next dives you'll have a new awareness and start building new skills, you'll be thinking differently and seeing things differently, and be moving on to the next phase where you become a real asset as a diver and to other divers, much safer, much more aware of realities, an awesome buddy to your wife.

As for the dive master, just look at it this way, the less you rely on the dive master the safer you become, if you're totally self-reliant, you've greatly increased the margin of safety for you and your wife, now the dive master becomes a safety cushion to yourselves, an extra measure of safety if you need him.

Deep Fin. Quite true, I think, but deep....

 

[Mike]

When you can take the trigger fish dung ball from my hand grasshopper you will be a scuba diver

 

[flots am]

Well, my goodness, why do we make these poor fellows go through all that training?

The DMs? Really, it's all part of SCUBA marketing. There's nothing in the DM class that shouldn't have been part of OW.

Regardless of your needs, wants, or expectations, are you going to tell me that you can envision absolutely no circumstances EVER where you would require more from a DM than a "tour guide?"

That's correct.

If I require more than a tour guide, then I don't belong on the dive.

And anyone who thinks it might be a good idea to have someone competent and knowledgeable on board in case of an unforeseen emergency should get off the boat and go back to class?

There is somewhere between one and two people you can actually count on underwater: You, and if you "chose well", your buddy.

Anybody else nearby might be a random stroke of luck, but you can't count on it.

flots.

 

[cvchief]

I guess a side benefit to not giving a crap about the DM looking out for you means you can choose the cheapest crappiest op you can find. Why think the DM should be a tour guide for that matter? Surely you can read up on the dive site and lead your own dive?

I mean I get the whole mantra of, "Think super diver, be super diver, live super diver. Take a member of the opposite sex along as a buddy. Be prepared to repopulate the entire species should the ENTIRE world die during your dive." Strive for perfection and all that.

But seriously, expecting a DM to look out for you doesn't have to be at odds with your "Super Diver" plan. However this 'you are all on your own' thing might be a little scarey to the new diver and not in keeping with the reality of how DM's operate in Cozumel. I think they do look to the safety of their charges and to call them 'tour guides' is a disservice to them. Mine taught me to be a good diver. Or at least decent. Well whatever I am....

My most recent dive photo:

 

[boulderjohn]

I said it before. I see it as something like Orwellian doublethink. The diver has to be able to think (accurately and confidently) "I can do this dive by myself; i don't need the assistance of a DM for safety reasons." At the same time, the DM has to be thinking, "I am responsible for these divers, and I need to make sure that every one of them comes back OK."

I also think it is not quite correct that the only purpose of a Cozumel guide is to protect the reef. If I am doing a drift dive in Florida, I have no DM, and I have a dive flag floating above me. The dive boat follows the flags and picks up buddy teams as they surface, wherever they surface. You can't have dive flags in Cozumel because of the towering reef structures. If people popped up on their own all over the place as they do in Florida, with the boat having no clue where they are until they reach the surface, there would be multiple divers lost every day. The DM really hast o keep the group together. If I were a Cozumel DM, I would see every diver going ascending without the group as a potential lost diver.

 

[Mike]

I'd be happy to dive in Cozumel without a dive master on the boat dives, just like there is no dive master on the shore dives, however, I do enjoy them there as a tour guide because I don't know the reefs as well as they do, they know where the cool swim thus are and have their own routes around the reef, know which coral head the moray usually is under, where the nurse shark is usually hanging out, knows where the sea horses are...but I'd even be happy to stumble around myself looking for that stuff.

But they do know the routes, they do know how to look and make sure the captain is in the right area and they do know how to get to the start of the dive if you're a little off in the drop in. But other than that, I'd have no qualms about doing the actual diving without a dive master in the water.

A few years ago, I wouldn't have been happy to, but now I am. You go dive in Bonaire a couple of times or in Florida or California and you're going to be forced to 'grow up' for lack of a better term in regard to, "Holy sh*t, there is no dive master in the water with me, now what do I do? Do I go left or do I go right? There is nobody here to show me what to do! I guess it's up to me to actually plan my dive before I get in the water, like I was taught I was supposed to!"

And I think that shows the weakness and the impotence that divers get when all they do is do dive areas that are lead by dive masters, your brain goes on auto pilot, you go from DefCon 5 down to 2 and let your guard down, you stop thinking for yourself and paying as much attention as you should on the dive, you're in vacation mode under water too, and that lulling into complacency can turn risky if not deadly if suddenly something unexpected is thrown in.

 

[boulderjohn]

I thought I would ell a non-Cozumel story that may make people think about this from a DM point of view.

This comes from a SB Accident and Incident thread a couple of years ago. Although we never got a final report on exactly what happened so my description has a little bit (not much) of conjecture, it is, I think, pretty accurate. A group arrived for a week of diving, and a woman on the trip was found not to have enough of a recent dive history, and by operator policy she was required to have a personal DM on the first day of diving. She was clearly unhappy about it and felt she should be allowed to dive on her own. During the dive she was apparently uncooperative with the DM. At a critical point she was observed to push the DM (a woman) away and swim off furiously. The DM went in pursuit as the diver went deeper and deeper--well past normal depth limits. When last seen, the DM was still trying to catch her.

No one is sure what happened after that. The DM eventually returned to the boat as others launched the search. The diver was never found.

As you might imagine, the thread was quite volatile. There was great disagreement about this, but the vast majority of posts were highly critical of the DM for not having the ability to catch and control the diver. Most people clearly thought that the DM was fully responsible for the safety of a diver who was actively trying to get away from her.