In Coz: You, Your Buddy, Your Group and Your DM. Who should do what?

[boulderjohn]

In my world, but with exception of one op (morning trip only) "DMs" are only guides. No requirement to stay with them, and no expectation of group surfacing as a group. Now, mind you, if they see a diver in distress, they will be there. But that is not their job. Their job is to pull a marker for the surface crew, and if you you do desire to point ot the sharks, etc.

That may be how it works in your world, but there are many different worlds out there, with many different expectations. At one extreme, the DM does little more than help you on and off the boat. At the other extreme, they guide your dive like a puppeteer. It is not possible to generalize to all situations.

 

[Mossman]

So these kind of places don't have real walls? You have to have a lot of horizonal movement to move vertically deeper?
Well if thousands do it, maybe it isn't that advanced or dangerous? People get behind the wheel with a drink or two and it isn't illegal because it isn't that dangerous?

That's a great analogy. Lots of people drive drunk, or at least over the legal limit. A handful get caught. The ones that don't get caught rationalize that, since they didn't get caught the last time, it's probably safe to do it again. Lots of people dive deep in Cozumel, many beyond the limits of their certifications. A handful get bent or worse. The ones that don't can rationalize that, since they didn't have any problems the last time they went deep, it's probably safe to dive deep again, maybe even deeper this time.

Back on the boat, I asked the DM, did you see her sinking and what had you planned to do? He replied" It's 110-120 to the sand, I was going to get her when she hit bottom if she hadn't figured it out". Oh well.

That's precisely why it's safe for new divers in Bonaire. The DM can retrieve a diver when he/she hits the relatively shallow bottom, rather than attempting a rescue at 200' or more.

And do they normally in other parts of the warm water world?

Yup, they sure do. Most other places in the warm water world with bottomless walls are marketed to more advanced divers.

 

[Pelagicsal]

It is not the same thing, but I have dived with ops that absolutely insist that arriving divers join a DM in the pool, before they can book dives on their boat.

10 minutes practicing skills is no big deal, and while it may not really tell a DM all they need to know about an arriving diver, it sure can help them spot some issues before they become incidents.

I have seen divers absolutely refuse to do that simple check out, and storm away rather than get in that pool with a DM! Myself I found it a short, harmless, amusing, and a decent way to just relax and get to know the staff a bit before I went on their boat. The "interview" process of that pool session can go two ways if you pay attention, and you could learn what to expect from the dive staff on the upcoming dives, just by their attitudes in that pool.

I just have to wonder about folks who cannot demean themselves for a few minutes to give the dive op a look. They need to take themselves a little less seriously, I think.

The last time I did a checkout was CocoView, and I had a great time making the DM crack up when he got to me in the lineup. Afterward he apologized for making me do the checkout.
I asked how he would have known without seeing me in the water...

 

[Mossman]

I just have to wonder about folks who cannot demean themselves for a few minutes to give the dive op a look. They need to take themselves a little less seriously, I think.

The last time I did a checkout was CocoView, and I had a great time making the DM crack up when he got to me in the lineup. Afterward he apologized for making me do the checkout.
I asked how he would have known without seeing me in the water...

Some such requirements get onerous, such as the Bonaire marine park briefing that's required of all divers (and if you dive via BDA, even more so!). Others can be pleasurable, such as the check-out dives off the stern of the Dancer or Aggressor boats in the Galapagos in a murky channel that's full of exotic sealife. Personally, if it meant an extra cost or losing valuable dive time, I would object if I felt I were otherwise qualified, but if it's a real dive (like the "checkout" in Bonaire) or part of the schedule (like the checkout dives in the Galapagos, or the shore dive checkout at Wakatobi) then it's time to go with the flow and make everyone happy.

 

[Brules]

OK, so this has been bugging me for almost five months. Hubby and I are on our second dive of our first day of diving for our vacation in Coz and we are at about 45 feet. (We have dove in Coz quite a few times.) All of a sudden air is streaming out of his reg and a piece of it goes flying off. I get next to him to help, he already has his 1st stage in his mouth while holding the 2nd stage together, the DM shows up immediately and signals for hubby to ascend. I ascend with him (since he is my buddy), we don't make a safety stop (no problem...we'd only been down for a few minutes and had about a 40 min SI before this dive), and the DM is with us. (Plus, we have VERY conservative computers and they didn't show us going into DECO.) We get to the surface and the DM hasn't put up a sausage; doesn't have a whistle; our whistles are useless; and we don't have sausages. So we are yelling like crazy to get a boat to see us....finally one does after about 5 minutes at the surface and radios our boat to come over. When the boat gets to us the DM yells at me...."Why did you come up! I don't need another person to take care of!" I've got to tell you...I was shocked at his response. I told him that I was TAUGHT to ALWAYS stay with my buddy and that's why I came up with hubby. Plus, I wanted to know if he was OK. My husband got in the boat and was fine, however, he chose to not finish the dive. I descended with the DM and finished the dive. What lessons did I learn?

1) Sh*t happens when you least expect it....BE PREPARED, BE CALM, BE CLOSE TO YOUR BUDDY AT ALL TIMES
2) Try your whistle (or any other saftey equip) out before you ever get into a compromising situation.
3) Always dive with a sausage (we bought them the next day).
4) Stay with your buddy even tho the DM might get p*ssed.

So, did I do the right thing ascending with hubby?

Perfect example of how most DM/Ops opperate and fully allow solo ascents and actively encourage breaking up dive buddies. I remember back in 1996 - I was tought and drilled into my head (PADI was about all there was back then) by my instructor, never leave your wingman. Always watch your buddy, your buddy is your life etc......

Thus why I always partner up with the DM......

And yes, I think you did good, you stayed with your wing man, I would have given that DM a royal ass chewing for yelling at me lol,

Perfect example of shy every diver in Coz should carry an SMB.....

 

[Mossman]

I agree with Brules. If your buddy isn't comfortable ascending solo, don't let your buddy ascend solo no matter what anyone else tells you. On the other hand, I believe there's nothing wrong with a solo ascent provided that the rest of the group is aware and the ascending diver is experienced and has a "safety sausage" of some sort (I hate the SMB acronym, sorry).

 

[bhouk]

Divemasters supervise divers. Hence the phrase "master". Many skill levels visit and dive tourist destinations such as Cozumel. If Divemasters are not responsible for the safety and well being of divers visiting unfamiliar diving destinations such as Cozumel, why is it suggested time and time again, that inexperienced divers should employ a private Divemaster? If the Divemaster isn't there to ensure the safety of the group, they should call them tour guides.
This board is frequented by experienced divers that understand the importance of being accountable for your own safety.
I'm sure there are many new divers visiting Cozumel that rely on the judgement of an "expert" Divemaster much like they trusted their OW Instructor.

 

[Laurie S.]

What checkout dive on Bonaire? I had read that it was required, but when we were there last month, we were not required to do it. We didn't ask, of course, but guessed that it may have been due to my boyfriend's credentials (MSDT). I had warned him that we would have do one, but we were free to go dive as soon as we showed our cards.

 

[Firefyter]

Divemasters supervise divers. Hence the phrase "master". Many skill levels visit and dive tourist destinations such as Cozumel. If Divemasters are not responsible for the safety and well being of divers visiting unfamiliar diving destinations such as Cozumel, why is it suggested time and time again, that inexperienced divers should employ a private Divemaster? If the Divemaster isn't there to ensure the safety of the group, they should call them tour guides.

The DM that is required on every dive there is not there to protect the diver. The DM is required by the Marine Park to protect the reefs from the divers. If you're interested in someone to help you personally, it is highly recommended to hire a private DM to attend to your needs.

This board is frequented by experienced divers that understand the importance of being accountable for your own safety.
I'm sure there are many new divers visiting Cozumel that rely on the judgement of an "expert" Divemaster much like they trusted their OW Instructor.

In other words, they're doing "Trust Me" Dives, which they are taught not to do from day one.

 

[Sorrows]

I would advise that you interview your dive ops in Coz before you go there expecting this. I'm not saying that they don't care, it's just that most of the ones I have dove with are there mostly as a tour guide (which is all I want or need). In my opinion, a tour guide DM is more than acceptable, its expected and preferred.

Anything else, and you're consistently doing nothing but "Trust Me" dives, and as a diver you've heard not to do those almost as much as you've heard "Always stay with your buddy".

I go back to TSandM's earlier post:
Nobody should ever, IMO, do a dive where they expect the DM to do anything but indicate the desired course and point out cryptic critters. If you need the DM for anything more, you shouldn't be doing the dive except as a training exercise.:

Well, my goodness, why do we make these poor fellows go through all that training? Regardless of your needs, wants, or expectations, are you going to tell me that you can envision absolutely no circumstances EVER where you would require more from a DM than a "tour guide?" And anyone who thinks it might be a good idea to have someone competent and knowledgeable on board in case of an unforeseen emergency should get off the boat and go back to class?

I was in Cozumel last month, stayed at Scuba Club and dove with a terrific divemaster (Geiser!) He was great at pointing out the cryptic stuff, understood our interests and needs as photographers, but didn't get in our way. We are all pretty comfortable with the diving thing by this point and look out for each other. But if something were to go pear-shaped and my life, the lives of my family, or the lives of anybody else on the boat were in peril, I expect that Geiser would have done something about it; I feel pretty certain about that, actually. Call me a wuss! I've never needed a lifeguard, a cop, or a firefighter to save me, either, but I am awfully grateful that they're around.