In Coz: You, Your Buddy, Your Group and Your DM. Who should do what?

[cvchief]

Absolutely! Take Bonaire, for example; you get in, sink to where you are a bit above the reef and start finning out, slowly getting deeper and always seeing the bottom. So you have more of a sense of how deep you are, I think, than you do on a wall--particularly if the viz is good. If there's still light and you can still see a fair bit around you, this could give you a false reading of how deep you are. (okay, maybe not you, but definitely me!)

So these kind of places don't have real walls? You have to have a lot of horizonal movement to move vertically deeper?

Also most places I've been to in the Caribbean (Bonaire, Roatan, Cayman) require a check-out dive; not so in Cozumel, of course. The idea that new divers are going to these depths without any sort of advanced training is crazy, IMHO. Yes, I understand that there are hundreds, thousands of people who do so and survive to tell the tale. What does that prove? How many people have gotten behind the wheel impaired by alcohol and gotten to their destination without incident? It's called luck. But some time, some where, somebody's luck is going to run out.

Well if thousands do it, maybe it isn't that advanced or dangerous? People get behind the wheel with a drink or two and it isn't illegal because it isn't that dangerous?

 

[Mike]

Seriously, I am asking. I mean if a wall drops to 400 feet instead of 1500 is it safer?

No, but if a wall bottoms at 150,160..170 even 200... versus 1500, its far safer.

 

[cvchief]

No, but if a wall bottoms at 150,160..170 even 200... versus 1500, its far safer.

And do they normally in other parts of the warm water world?

 

[islanddream]

OK, so this has been bugging me for almost five months. Hubby and I are on our second dive of our first day of diving for our vacation in Coz and we are at about 45 feet. (We have dove in Coz quite a few times.) All of a sudden air is streaming out of his reg and a piece of it goes flying off. I get next to him to help, he already has his 1st stage in his mouth while holding the 2nd stage together, the DM shows up immediately and signals for hubby to ascend. I ascend with him (since he is my buddy), we don't make a safety stop (no problem...we'd only been down for a few minutes and had about a 40 min SI before this dive), and the DM is with us. (Plus, we have VERY conservative computers and they didn't show us going into DECO.) We get to the surface and the DM hasn't put up a sausage; doesn't have a whistle; our whistles are useless; and we don't have sausages. So we are yelling like crazy to get a boat to see us....finally one does after about 5 minutes at the surface and radios our boat to come over. When the boat gets to us the DM yells at me...."Why did you come up! I don't need another person to take care of!" I've got to tell you...I was shocked at his response. I told him that I was TAUGHT to ALWAYS stay with my buddy and that's why I came up with hubby. Plus, I wanted to know if he was OK. My husband got in the boat and was fine, however, he chose to not finish the dive. I descended with the DM and finished the dive. What lessons did I learn?

1) Sh*t happens when you least expect it....BE PREPARED, BE CALM, BE CLOSE TO YOUR BUDDY AT ALL TIMES
2) Try your whistle (or any other saftey equip) out before you ever get into a compromising situation.
3) Always dive with a sausage (we bought them the next day).
4) Stay with your buddy even tho the DM might get p*ssed.

So, did I do the right thing ascending with hubby?

 

[Ron Lee]

So, did I do the right thing ascending with hubby?

Yes. I am curious why he did not use your octo.

I think I understand it now. I was confused on your terms. His primary regulator failed and he started breathing off of his octopus (backup regulator)...correct?

If he was not in jeopardy of running out of air, I would have still made a safety stop. That was your call. I was not there to evaluate the situation.

PS, if your account of the DMs response once you surfaced is factual (I have to say it that way), then it was pathetic.

 

[Splitlip]

In my world, but with exception of one op (morning trip only) "DMs" are only guides. No requirement to stay with them, and no expectation of group surfacing as a group. Now, mind you, if they see a diver in distress, they will be there. But that is not their job. Their job is to pull a marker for the surface crew, and if you you do desire to point ot the sharks, etc.

 

[Mike]

And do they normally in other parts of the warm water world?

Sure. Just as there is every variation of geography above water the same thing applies below. One of the features that makes Bonaire so popular is the reef structure, with a double reef system where it first plateaus for quite a while at 30-50 feet and then farther out it drops down steeper to 150. You do your wall dive as your first 45 minutes of your dive and spend the next 45 minutes doing basically a long safety stop.

 

[Firefyter]

Look, I may be in a minority here with all you rugged individualists, but protecting the safety and well-being of those he is leading and getting them back to the boat safely is the DM's #1 job. Sure, sometimes you need the expert fish-spotter more than you need the lifesaver, and it's great when the DM has a sense of humor, but let's not kid ourselves which is the most important ability in a DM. They are, after all, certified in rescue for a reason.

<snip>

I like what (Chief?) said:

As for the DM, I would say I think divers should be *prepared* to have a DM who is useless for their safety, but they should EXPECT a DM who puts their safety and care at the top of the list. I don't think a tour guide only DM is acceptable.

I would advise that you interview your dive ops in Coz before you go there expecting this. I'm not saying that they don't care, it's just that most of the ones I have dove with are there mostly as a tour guide (which is all I want or need). In my opinion, a tour guide DM is more than acceptable, its expected and preferred.

Anything else, and you're consistently doing nothing but "Trust Me" dives, and as a diver you've heard not to do those almost as much as you've heard "Always stay with your buddy".

I go back to TSandM's earlier post:

Nobody should ever, IMO, do a dive where they expect the DM to do anything but indicate the desired course and point out cryptic critters. If you need the DM for anything more, you shouldn't be doing the dive except as a training exercise.

 

[fred3798]

By way of example only, the following is copied from Scubadu's website:

"Our DiveMasters and Instructors are all PADI Certified, and have many years of experience in Cozumel, they will make your diving experience with SCUBA DU very safe and also lots of fun. Our attention to safety first and personal service is the main reason why SCUBA DU has one of the best safety records in Cozumel, and has been repeatedly recognized as one of the top 10  dive operators in Cozumel and the Caribbean for many years by industry publications like Scuba Diving Magazine, Sport Diver and Undercurrent."

Three uses of "safe" in one paragraph. I looked at a bunch of others and, not surprisingly, they nearly all stress safety in their advertising. I am not singling out Scubadu as being any different from most others. Of course they all stress safety because in the real world people look to the Dive Operation to protect them and assure them of safe dives to th extent they can. Supervision by highly trained staff is almost always assured in the ads. I know we are all ultimately responsible for ourselves. But lets not kid ourselves, dive operations compete by emphasizing the safety of the services they offer - as Scubadu's website above confirms. It is sophistry for the operators to deny their resonsibility and if they understaff to try to compete on price and by understaffing fail to deliver the safety that they promise, they will be liable. If they advertised "we offer services for experienced divers only as we do not assure your safety" that might be different. But they don't. They promise cruise ship newbies and all comers safe dives in an advanced environment. If we do not deliver what we promise to consumers because we want to save money to compete on price, we should expect to be called out for it. Its all about money.

 

[islanddream]

Yes. I am curious why he did not use your octo.

I think I understand it now. I was confused on your terms. His primary regulator failed and he started breathing off of his octopus (backup regulator)...correct?

If he was not in jeopardy of running out of air, I would have still made a safety stop. That was your call. I was not there to evaluate the situation.

PS, if your account of the DMs response once you surfaced is factual (I have to say it that way), then it was pathetic.

You're correct...his primary failed and he was breathing off his octo. And yes, what the DM said is absolutely factual. I was very surprised at his words.