In Coz: You, Your Buddy, Your Group and Your DM. Who should do what?

[diverrex]

As for California--they are an entirely different breed. Much tougher than the rest of us--they have to be!

As a California diver I would like to think this is true, but it's also so for those diving PNW, Great Lakes and Northeast coast, probably off the Carolina coast also.

Unfortunately we also have our share of scuba fatalities in California, as do the other areas. And while a number of those (maybe the majority) are newer divers it also happens to those with experience, so no matter how "tough" or experienced a diver is it is critical to follow safe diving practices and be aware of the dangers inherent in scuba. Scuba can be a very safe activity, and the number of fatalities is fairly low given the amount of dives made. But to treat diving as simply another "excursion" not much different than say parasailing, ziplining, etc. is a mistake, just as putting all your faith into a dive op believing "they are professionals so they must know what they are doing and will keep you safe" is also a mistake.

Maybe we are not tougher divers in California and those other areas (well maybe for tolerating cold water we are tougher) but we've had to learn to take care of ourselves and our buddies simply because we don't have DMs in the water with us to rely on.

 

[Mike]

I've logged about 150 dives in Bonaire and, IMHO, this is a great place for new divers--certainly a better choice than Cozumel. First off, there are boat dives and they are super-easy; there are shore dives which are as simple as jumping off a pier; it's hard to get truly lost and if you do, it's a lot safer to pop up and do a check than it would be in Cozumel. The truly advanced dives are at either end of the island and easily avoided; even with an advanced dive like, say, Karpata, the difficulty lies in the getting in and getting out and not so much with the possibility of being swept out to sea or swept down to 130+ feet. Most importantly, YOU chose where and when you go--not the case in Cozumel. I am assuming, of course, that this unfotunate couple showed up on the dive boat most likely having no idea where they would be going--and were taken to SR because that's where the other divers wanted to go. In short, diving without a DM in Bonaire isn't such a big deal. YMMV

I do think it's weird that they don't use DMs in the Florida Keys. OTOH, dive ops tend to take most of their divers--especially the new ones--to nice,calm, fishy reefs in Pennekamp. No dive op is going to take someone with no advanced training to the Spiegel Grove. And since they schedule specific days for their advanced wreck dives, new divers won't find themselves on that boat by accident. So I don't believe your comparison here is very apt, either.

As for California--they are an entirely different breed. Much tougher than the rest of us--they have to be!

The intent of the post you are replying about was --- there is diving that exists that dive masters don't accompany divers.

Following head to tail in Cozumel, is Cozumel's requirements, it's not the requirement of scuba diving. You aren't taught in any course, be it OW, AOW or Rescue Diver to follow a dive master around on dives. You're taught to be self-reliant to self rescue, navigate and rely only on your buddy.

A dive master in the water is a local condition of where you are diving. New divers especially fresh out of certification class go on vacation to the Caribbean and see the dive master as an extension of their course instructor, they start looking to the dive master as their primary source of safety or continued instruction and develop a false sense of security and project on the dive master their expectations and forget they are still 100% responsible for their own safety. We see this verified all the time - as soon as there is an accident, somebody starts blaming the dive master.

 

[flots am]

Maybe we are not tougher divers in California and those other areas (well maybe for tolerating cold water we are tougher) but we've have had to learn to take care of ourselves and our buddies simply because we don't have DMs in the water with us to rely on.

Divers everywhere would be safer without DMs.

How many brand new OW divers would choose to, and be able to plan a dive that involves jumping off a boat into a relatively fast current, drifting underwater over a deep wall known to have down-currents and where buoyancy control is critical, monitor their own time, depth and remaining gas, maintain buddy contact, shoot an SMB at the appropriate time, do a drifting ascent while holding a safety stop, and hope that the boat was able to follow, then surface and re-board?

My guess is "not many". The new divers would more likely ask for a boat ride out to a nice quiet reef where the boat could moor to a buoy, and they could watch the cool fish and tune their skills in a non-threatening environment, then ascend up the mooring line.

DMs who are marketed as, and appear to be extensions of the new diver's OW class encourage overly-trusting behavior and dives in conditions that a sane brand new diver would never attempt with just a similar, new OW buddy. And in fact, they would probably have an awesome time in the easier dive.

flots.

 

[Mossman]

Ignoring a deco obligation on two consecutive dives, then taking a big hit after surfacing from the second dive, and falling back into the water from the ladder.

That should be more of a warning against ignoring deco obligations, not making a solo ascent. I don't ignore deco obligations and my computer, being so conservative, obligates me more than most other divers. If it were the very rare situation where I had a deco obligation and an equipment malfunction caused me to abort my stop(s), then I'd fully inflate my BC at the surface and hope the boat and its O2 get there quickly. However, I would never do a solo ascent where I had a deco obligation unless I had redundant air of some sort. Worst case scenario is the "undeserved" hit, which is approximately a 1 in 10,000 risk. Multiply that by the chance that the undeserved hit is a CNS hit so bad that it paralyzes me at the surface and you end up with the infinitesimal risk that I spoke of. There's more chance of the plane crashing on the way there.

How many brand new OW divers would choose to, and be able to plan a dive that involves jumping off a boat into a relatively fast current, drifting underwater over a deep wall known to have down-currents and where buoyancy control is critical, monitor their own time, depth and remaining gas, maintain buddy contact, shoot an SMB at the appropriate time, do a drifting ascent while holding a safety stop, and hope that the boat was able to follow, then surface and re-board?

My guess is "not many". The new divers would more likely ask for a boat ride out to a nice quiet reef where the boat could moor to a buoy, and they could watch the cool fish and tune their skills in a non-threatening environment, then ascend up the mooring line.

DMs who are marketed as, and appear to be extensions of the new diver's OW class encourage overly-trusting behavior and dives in conditions that a sane brand new diver would never attempt with just a similar, new OW buddy. And in fact, they would probably have an awesome time in the easier dive.

I agree with you on this 100%. In fact, they'd probably have a better time on the easier dive since there's less distraction. New divers are so preoccupied with watching their gauges and have so little sense of spatial awareness that they're missing or at least not appreciating what the rest of us love about Cozumel diving. Give 'em 50 feet, a sandy bottom so they can practice buoyancy without killing coral or plummeting deep, and fishy coral heads so they can start learning fish ID and how to look for the less obvious critters. Save the thrill rides and swim throughs and deep walls for another time. They'll still be there.

 

[mstevens]

OK, you may be right, but abetting a suicide is still illegal in many places.

That's a very, very different thing from suicide's supposedly being illegal. Very.

There is no conceivable public benefit to having suicide be illegal - the only thing this would do is deter people from reporting or seeking treatment for failed attempts. The only people it would be possible to punish under such a law would be survivors of failed attempts or the heirs of someone who is successful.

Despite significant disagreement and public debate, there is at least a very legitimate public interest in outlawing abetting suicide and those who do this are still around to punish if that's deemed appropriate.

 

[rjchandler]

We dove at Captain Don's Habitat. There was no video, no check-out dive, and we were not charged a marine park fee. We did two shore dives right at the resort. We were only there for the day. We were given details about where to dive, currents, etc.

If you were off a cruise ship then you had a waiver from all that.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

I do not agree with DM's allow people to solo ascend....

I also think SMB's should be required for all Coz dives due to currents ability to spread/break groups up. Also due to above.....

I haven't dove in Coz, but on drift dives in Key Largo the practice was you go to the dive master, give the safety stop sign, make the okay sign around the dive flag rope and go up do your safety stop while staying with the group then go up signal the boat, swim away from the flag when they acknowledge your signal to be picked up. This seems like a safe practice to me.

---------- Post added April 5th, 2012 at 03:06 PM ----------

Thank goodness I don't have any PADI certifications!

I do agree that most Cozumel diving is advanced, and that this can be deceptive when conditions are good.

SMB's are very useful, but they're also tricky - that bag can cause significant buoyancy issues that can be very problematic for the already buoyancy-impaired. Using one properly and safely is, in my view, an advanced skill. The fact that many of us agree that they're necessary in Cozumel is further argument that it's a generally advanced location.

What's wrong with padi? and as far as the smb, isn't this another one of those skills that you should practice in shallow, or in a pool??

 

[Laurie S.]

• Half Moon cay is nice for snorkeling if you get way off to the sides of the beach. The part where everybody swims is just open sand and no fish..

• That's what I thought, too, but I was there two weeks ago and there were thousands of mackeral and a large barracuda swimming happily among them. I was face to face with the barracuda at one point, and of course, did not take my underwater camera with me that day (because there's no fish there!). Oh well, I have a great memory of that sight.

---------- Post added April 5th, 2012 at 12:16 PM ----------

If you were off a cruise ship then you had a waiver from all that.

They didn't know we were off a cruise ship, but they did know we were only there for the day.

 

[Mike]

I haven't dove in Coz, but on drift dives in Key Largo the practice was you go to the dive master, give the safety stop sign, make the okay sign around the dive flag rope and go up do your safety stop while staying with the group then go up signal the boat, swim away from the flag when they acknowledge your signal to be picked up. This seems like a safe practice to me.

As long as you're going up in a buddy pair it sounds fine. If you're leaving your buddy behind, what happens if they get into an OOA scenario alone?

What's wrong with padi? and as far as the smb, isn't this another one of those skills that you should practice in shallow, or in a pool??

You'd gain a little knowledge doing it in a pool, some would be better than nothing. However SMB deployment is usually done at depths deeper than most pools. Training involves knowing how much air to put in it at different depths because the they will expand as it goes to the surface.

In Cozumel if you tell your dive master you'd like to practice with your SMB at the end of the dive he will usually gladly let you, even give you a quick lesson if you're lucky.

 

[Ron Lee]

Why do you have to inflate a safety sausage below the surface? I can do my safety stop and listen for boats. No motor sound..ok to ascend. Turn around and look for boats and get comfy on the surface. Then inflate the safety sausage for visibility. Keep turning around looking for boats. Be prepared to descend if a boat comes at you. Negative buoyancy at the safety stop is good.

I just inflated mine while standing. It is only a four foot item but that is adequate for most Cozumel conditions.