Instructor's ethics and dilemas.

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Liquid

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Scuba Instructor
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In the spirit of my last thread (thoughts about instructors) I am going into this subject, that is an ofspring of that thread.

What do I mean by ethics?
I'll start with the "easier" issuesand than go to the dilemas.

-Teaching in the best way you can.

-treating all the students nice (even the anoying ones).

-Kepping up to standards when you are not supervized. It's very easy to "forget" teaching a skill or round a bit the corners (super shorted PADI course of 2.5 days in thailand is a good example for it).

-Giving a fair decision about certifications (I'll get deeper into that in a moment).

-Standing up to your bosses with your opinion (also more in a moment, actuay heavily realted to the last topic).

-Alwais keeping an eye on the others instructors. If another instructor rounds the edges, and you are aware of it, don't let it go.

Dilemas:
(that's where we get deeper)
Ill give here some example, from my own experience.

Every center has a different way of paying the instructors. Where I worked, you can say more or less, that money was "per certificate". If you went a whole course with a person, than he couldn't do the last dive, you are not payed. If there is a diver, which you are not sure if he should be certified, there is some weight for the money (aspecialy since full-job instructors are heavily underpayed). This is more or less what I mean by ethics, knowing to look at these things objectively, and boy is this hard!

I sinned several times in those things, It's hard not to when you work under a lot of pressure, in a dive-shop at high season, when you have at least one course to teach, and probobly a whole lot of other assignments (guideds, refreshes, etc.).

And if we got to the pressure:
Sometimes the shop owner will put pressure on you to finish early with a course, so you can go to another assignment. Usualy it goes after you tell yourself "the hell with the money of that assignment", and you want to puft effort into the course, but allas...

There is a lot of pressure on an instructor at a dive center. Time scheduals must be folowed, and it's a known fact that it takes a different amount of time for every student to learn. Sometimes becouse of the pressure you will neglect a student, encourage him to quit, while actualy you could make a hell of a diver of him if you just had another hour to work with him on mask clearing in the pool.

An instructor must know how to stand his mind, teach the courses as if money wan't an issue. And it's hard. I am sure that all of the instructors here, that worked in a dive-shop with heavy traffic know what I am talking about.
An instructor must somehow find a way how to make things not to come on the expense of his students.

And like in the "thoughts about instructors" thread, I am quite tired. I really had some more very intelegent things to say, only I can't recall. I'll post on later.

 
your right liquid.. i work for the largest dive center in florida and we are a very high-volume operation being the biggest. Its tempting to pass a student who you question as competent because you dont get paid if he doesnt pass and if he doesnt pass you have to work more hours with this student and since your not paid very well for the work you do it only reduces the amount per hour you make by spending more time with that student.

Let me put this into perspective for those of you who dont know what instructors make at most dive centers here in the US.. usally most instructors get paid a min of $50 per student and up for a open water student. To certify this student you will spend about 40 hours with this student from day 1 in the class to his 4 open water dives. If you do the math for 1 student at $50 for 40 hours it comes out to.. $1.25 a hour per student min. That isnt much! now maybe you can see the dilema. You dont get into this job to get rich.. thats for sure and instructors just like everyone else has to eat and pay his bills. This again breeds bad instructors to violate standards aka skip over parts.
 
Rstone,
I think Im glad That I kind of woke you up (you mentioned you usualy like just to watch the forum). I like the way you explain things, and the point of view you brought (of a very experienced instructor, I belive).

I just felt an urge to mention how much I was making where I used to work as a full time instructor, after I read your message.

We had a minimum monthly wage of 800$, and if you consider the fact that usualy it's a 30 days a month job, It's really even lower than it seems at first. Than we were paid for each dive about 12$. For courses, we weren't even paid 50$ per student. It was, I belive, 42$ for each of the first four students, and about 37 for the other students, for an o/w course. If you acomulated less than the minimum during the month, you would recived the minimum, If you acomulated more, than you got more. The highest selary I ever recived was about 2000 dollars, and after that month a was completly sick due to over-working (I belive I had an avarage of at least 2-3 dives a day, beside courses, which I had 2 in the same time, doing the classes togethere, and working in the water in 2 groups). I can however say, that I consider my moral high, and I never felt ashame to face my boss if I he wanted me to do something I thought I shouldnt.
 
I have complete respect for how hard most instructors work. Just helping with classes (divemaster-in-training) is exhausting, and I don't do 1/10 as much as the instructors do, if even that much!

The instructors at our shop are contracted by us. They are not actually our employees. We have about 30 instructors..some are full time, some are part time, and some ar independent (but, they can use our classrooms and gear for students). They get the full amount (minus books) for "board classes" which are the classes we schedule and take money for. OW class is $149 and books are $45.00 so the instructor gets $104 for each student.

If the student wants a private class (set around their own schedule) the instructor can set their own price, up to $400.

I learned to dive with this shop, then started working there, so I don't have any experience with other dive shops. I had no idea it was so "brutal" other places. Think some of our new instructors that move back to the states will be in for quite a shock!
 
You guys sure do a lot of crying..Nobody promised you a rose garden...Unfortunately when you learn how to teach scuba nobody tells you how to make money as a scuba instructor..There are courses available in this..Frankly to make any money in this industry you need to be an independent Who works loyally with his or her scuba shop.Loyalty is the key word.
If any of you out there want to learn there is some great books.."How to make money as a scuba instructor" This is how I learned to do multi level training..Boy that really boosts your income and does not cause you to skip standards>
Another good reference is How to make $10,000.00 in Two weeks teaching scuba...It is being done all the time....I did it.
Potential students have a belief that all certification classes are created approximately equal and they tend to make decisions on their entry level dive course based on price. Once they have found cheap..They stay cheap.

Frankley if you are not making $100,000.00 a year teaching scuba your screwing up. It may take a few years to establish your client base but it is attainable and sustainable.
 
CaptDave...

How do you do that? here in Australia O/W courses cost A$325....thats inclusive of all books and materials.

Instructors here get paid A$100.00 per day. Thats USD50.00 per day.....you break that down into 40 hours
Instructors here earn USD1.25 per hour for the whole course. There are no incentives to get more people on the course and no incentives to sell gear...the USD50.00 per day is it.

How on earth do you earn USD100,000 per year? I'd really like to know because based on what we earn here in Australia its just not possible.

Hocky
 
CaptDave.........This new informtation may create the insurgance of 1000 + new dive instructor wannabes (myself included)

Butch :peace:
 
Well Here goes guys.
The first thing you have to do is to set yourself apart from the regular run of the mill scuba instructor..You need to make a deal with your dive shop..Believe me any dive shop owner will love you if you make good money because they make a lot more with you than with the regulars that just say; Where is my next student..
The Deal.
Tell your shop that you will keep working with there pay scale but that you want to bring in your own students aside from theres and that you will charge them yourself.You will sell only the shops scuba equipment and charter the shops dive boats..You must set up a commission on your sale of equipment as this adds to your income..You should ask for 15% and settle for 12%. Now think about that..If you train 100 students a year and they spend $1500.00 on scuba equipment..That figures out to about $18,000.00 at 12% and you haven't even put your foot in the pool..The key is to sell scuba equipment complete packages to your students..This requires selective students on your part.
The dive shop owner will love this...
Have any of you trained a 100 students a year.. I do it all the time..It is easy...
The trick is to get the quality students you want and how to keep them loyal to you so your back end (repeat business and sales) defies industry standards.
This is not easy. do not get the idea it is a get rich quick deal it takes a lot of work and committment but it is attainable. Keep an open mind....
Scenero #1
Your average class is 9 students 6 guys and 3 girls..
Your in cold water and so everybody has to wear wetsuits strap on 25-30 pounds of weight then one of the girls has to pee.. You tell her to pee in her suit when you get in the water. You make a surf entry.
someone gets sea sick, a weight belt is lost. someone needs more weight. buy the time you finish the skills and time to go on the tour 2 guys are nearly out of air one of the girls is exhausted and they look at you like are you sure this is the fun stuff you promised...4 of the guys can't wait to go again. two guys stare at you in disbelief..and there is another dive for cert dive # 2..

or you could:


#2 scenerio.
Your luxury live aboard has just anchored in the sand off
the Turks and Caicos.Your in 30 feet of water with 83 degree water temperature. a shallow reef is nearby.
You prepare your dive float and toss it 10 feet off the stern.You tell the boats other instructors your plans.
Next you assign each of your students a number say 1 to 10
That right I said 10 students.When 1 is on the platform ready to dive #2 begins to suit up with the help of the other two instructors.
You and student #1 decend to 30 feet with 100 foot visabilty
and 83 degree water temp. Your in skins with 4 lbs of weight and the student is wearing 8lbs.
Your dive master is awaiting with your underwater video camera..You have a full face dive mask with one way communication to your student and two way communication to your divemaster..After 15 minutes you ascent completing all of the skills .
The crew assists this diver out of the water and shows him to to tank up again.and stows his gear.About the same time student #2 descents with Instructor #2
Student #3 ready to dive with you again now looses his weight belt. No problem the boat crew simply hands another one and the lost belt is retreived later.
After about 2 hours all of your students are done with the skills.
The boat crew is setting up lunch on the sundeck and you debrief your students with your video tape of there skills ( Video is not necessary for this to work).
You then prepare them for their second dive and announce that there will be an afternoon fun and experience dive planned for all divers.

Now.
Which class would you like to teach ?
 
That all sounds nice and fuzzy, and im not crying as you imply.. and yes i knew what kinda pay instructors got before i became one and no i didnt get into the business to get rich like you.. im just stating the facts of whats typical in this area... and of course your also making alot of assumptions.. such as 1. they will want your business, 2.they will give you commission, etc.

The only problem i could see with your plan is.. if they pay you directly for the class then the shop is taking a loss if your taking advantage of there equipment, facility, pool, classroom, etc since that is the stores overhead cost and since they have very little profit margins as it is you cant charge more then the shop or your students are going to think they are being robbed when they could of just went directly to the store and paid less, unless you can offer them something the store cant which in that case your competing for students with them. Your idea does sound interesting but missing alot of critical information.

Personally in the area i live in the shop i work for is the largest PADI shop in my area, and therefore really has very little competition so would never agree to your idea, second they wouldnt give you commission since they have the lowest prices in florida already and would rather sell gear cheap then raise the price to pay a commission.. as it is they dont even pay there own employees a commission. If they needed the business they would just advertise and bring in there own students with there own staff of instructors on a non-commission basis where the students pay the store for there classes and give the instructors only a small percentage of that.

Not to knock your idea because obviously it has worked for you, but it would seem you would been targeting smaller dive operations? who need the business?

If i could get away with that around here.. dont get me wrong id do it in a heartbeat... however they will not give you the time of day at our company if you dont sign a non-compete agreement.. which is in effect for 3 years after i leave and within a 75 mile radius of all of there 9 stores.
 
Hmmm. I was sure that Cap'tDave's first post was shear sarcasm. Maybe what you claim is possible Dave, but don't see anyone in this market doing anything except covering their costs...

-kate

 

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