"Is a BP/W too confusing for new divers?" and related topics...

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"BP/W confusing for new students" thing is nonsence and you example just proves it. I had 2 of my close friends got certified last year in jacked BCD. He bought a BP/W right after the class and is happy ever since. His wife was pushing back for 3 more dives saying that she did not want to get confused and she would dive what she was taught. But after him convincing her to try and she did a dive in BP/W she said screw the jacket - what a waste of time and got her BP/W.
 
Don't be so sensitive people. It looks really good. It just doesn't look perfect. Dive 5... I get it. But if we get so sensitive that we can't say anything then it's a slippery slope back to oveweighted divers on their knees.

Perfection doesn't exist. I'd like to see a video. We all look neutral in stills :wink:

This post got me thinking about this whole buoyancy control issue. I started diving before BCD's and auto inflator. I had a short grey UDT vest with 2 CO2 cartridges and an oral inflator like on SMBs today. I learned buoyancy control on my own with that vest. I'd add air at depth to get neutral then vent it as I ascended. The venting was B!

By the time the horse collars w/ auto inflator came out I was ready to learn how to use it on my own. That took a dive or two. I used a BCD jacket for a long time. A few years ago I tried then bought a B/P wing rig.

The point is that buoyancy control appears at least from what is posted on SB day after day.....a major training issue. It is treated by some as a some kind of mystery or magic or voodoo that can only be learned by intensive training and multiple dives, by that I don't mean a 1/2 dozen dives. I regularly see posts from divers with 20, 30 and more dives claim to be still struggling with buoyancy control.

This post is both an example of this thinking, the amazement of how few dives the students have and clear evidence that it is not a mystery or magic or voodoo just a skill that has a few subtleties to it that need to be learned and understood. Anyone of average intelligence and motor skills can learn, understand and execute buoyancy control.

I do not intend in any way to minimize their accomplishments, getting certified to dive by good demanding instructors is no small feat and probably should be looked with some amount of awe. Teaching people to dive safely and well is an even more demanding task, and appears by the pictures to have been done well!
I just don't think buoyancy control should be the big deal it has become. Maybe it's just me.
 
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+1 For Wayne and for RJPs post... as one of his students, I can vouch for his skills as an instructor!

He worked me over pretty well on the last dive of a recent wreck course (blackout line exit from overhead, crossed lines, OOA buddy, free flow backup with post shut down, etc...), but it was terrific, and I know that having his name on a cert card means a lot.

Having trained with Wayne up through higher tech levels, I can also vouch for the fact that he won't let you get a way with anything. I still recall a certain "Dive 3" of a 12-dive tech course that I repeated more than once or twice.

- Slack line? It will find it's way around your manifold!
- Reg not clipped off? Wayne will ensure it entangles you to the platform.
- Vary more than +/- a foot when doffing/donning four or five bottles in a tri-mix class? You'll do it again, with no mask this time.
- Light not stowed properly or reel not clipped off correctly? Wayne will pick-pocket you without you even knowing it.

My "fondest" recollection in one of his classes was seeing him ahead of me and slightly below... with a 400ft reel clipped off to his butt d-ring. I came slowly up behind him, thrilled that I was going to be able to swipe a piece of his gear for a change. My excitement turned to chagrin when, as I gingerly unclipped the reel from Wayne's d-ring, only to see the reel had "RJP" written on the handle!
 
Thanks for posting RJP! Our student progression is Jacket BC weight belt in pool and they are not in the best of shape because chlorine does take a toll on the gear (that's what you'll be rentining when you travel). When students go to Dutch Springs for OW and other classes, we then put them in Infinity Systems (that's my whole rental line) for the 1st time and give them a quality reg as well. The results have been awesome! Students have more control (buoyancy/trim), which means they can focus on skill and instruction which in the end makes it easier on my DM's and Instructors, its a win, win! In regards to the other danglies, believe me, I get it! When divers get comfortable and see that yes, you can dive LOCALLY and they are enjoying themselves/having fun, then they can justify the expense of owning your own gear and have the gear set up for them. So due to the fact that I have to deal with the masses, I still have a traditional reg set up on the rental systems. I would go Lg hose/Sh hose from the start but until you can rent it everywhere, I go with what everyone is use to. BTW no retractor, I have a clip on it, hard to see, divers unclip to use compass and check pressure while diving. When our customers purchase their gear, they demo it in the pool and I introduce the Long hose/Short Hose w/Single Brass/glass SPG. We have about a 85% conversion rate. In this case, customer did OW with us, 4 dives on vacation (renting), then my PPB class, with the repetion of air shares in both OW and PPB (this time we do skill, but swim for a horizontal distance of 60' and then clean up and of course, all while mid water and nuetrally buoyant). Combination of 2 classes, repetition of skills and seeing the other 2 PPB students using Lg hose/Sh hose, customer is purchasing the Halcyon Eclipse System ("cinch" great for rental but everyone at shop gets the basic Eclipse because you don't need the pads and the "Cinch", Saves $100) with Lg Hose/Short hose config. Customer is thrilled and getting into the right gear the first time around. Pretty funny (kind of expected it) to see how everyone is so quick to point out problems instead of "WOW, they have BP & W's in rental" or "wish my shop had BP & W's" or "that's awesome, no jacket style bc's in rental", you get my point. No worries all, I have tough skin and am very proud of the students we put out and the reputation we have built here in the NE and across the US. Our program is always evolving, who knows, maybe we will put the icing on the cake and convert regs to Lg hose/sh hose, one thing i've learned in diving, never say never! Gotta run and teach a class at Dutch, I'll check in later.
 
BTW, here is my 11 yr old daughter, rockin BP & W with 7' Lh hose (wants to be like dad)/Sh hose config! Photo taken last week (first time at Dutch this year) and has only done OW Cert (last Aug at 10), PPB is next, but I would say she is on her way!

GOPR1448.jpg
 
She looks awesome! Now get that girl a swivel or two....it looks like the reg is about to be torn out of her mouth!

Edit: On second glance, I think hose routing could be fixed there....but I think a couple of swivels or elbows would help reduce the likelihood of them crossing like that.
 
BTW, here is my 11 yr old daughter, rockin BP & W with 7' Lh hose (wants to be like dad)/Sh hose config! Photo taken last week (first time at Dutch this year) and has only done OW Cert (last Aug at 10), PPB is next, but I would say she is on her way!

She has the same rig and fins as my gf....even the same pink tanks.... also, I ordered her Hpink Inifnity from you guys, so thanks! She loves it. :D


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My gf's H wing will kinda fold up like in the photos up at the top of the thread a bit too, even when it's nearly empty or is empty. I concur that this diver is not over-weighted, especially if that is at the start of a dive...remember that an AL80 is 4lbs lighter when empty.
 
Great work guys, thanks for posting

Further to the OP, apparently double tanks with giant bungee wings are impossible to master too... here's one of my buddies with, IIRC, about 30 dives/AOW on his second dive in doubles - disgraceful trim, look like he is really struggling and clearly having an awful time!

IMG_2284.jpg
 
Great work guys, thanks for posting

Further to the OP, apparently double tanks with giant bungee wings are impossible to master too...

Giant bungied wings are very simple to master - replace them with non-bungied wings!

:d

(Damn, I think I just hijacked my own thread!)
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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