Is calculating experience by # dives a good thing?

[Cave Diver]

The point of the whole post is this: I think I had better skills & buoyancy control at 25 dives than I do at 50. Going to Australia and diving in warm water, excellent vis and no drysuit was too easy. Perhaps I picked up some bad habits..

So is # of dives a good way to measure skill?

I dont think # of dives is a good way at all.

I know of instances with at least 5 different divers who were doing repetitive dives with 20 minute bottom times just so they could get four or five dives in their log to build up a required number of dives.

So these divers have 100+ dives logged that year. Does this make them skilled or experienced? Not in my book.

I think that experience comes in two distinct types. A breadth of experience and a depth of experience.

Breadth means that a diver has completed dives under a broad range of conditions. Warm dives, cold dives, deep dives, shallow dives, good viz, low viz, etc. etc.

Depth means that a diver has a lot of experience with one particular type of diving. 100 reef dives. 75 wreck dives. 200 spearfishing dives.

The most skilled and experienced diver, IMO, is one that has both types of experience. A wide range of different types of dives, and many of each type to their credit.

There is also some debate as to what actually constitutes a dive. I've taken a page from one of my former instructors with 20+ years experience. He doesn't log a dive if it's less than an hour.

I think that's a pretty good philosophy, because total time spent in the water is more indicative to me than number of dives.

I'd most likely rate someone higher that told me they had 100 hours in the water last year over someone that said they had 100 dives in last year.

YMMV.

 

[Nay]

I think that's a pretty good philosophy, because total time spent in the water is more indicative to me than number of dives.

I do agree with you that logging 10 min dives to get lots of them in is stupid and defeats the point of actually diving and enjoying it. However, there is something to be said for the process of kitting up, getting in and getting out. Going along with the car analogy, during my driver's ed course, I had to get on and off the freeway a lot more times that it seemed necessary because it takes more skills than just driving in a straight line.

In my opinion (all 5 dives of it) the number of dives you've logged doesn't make a good or bad diver. I've met people with masters degrees who have the common sense of a sea star. It's about experience and comfort in the water, a lot of that comes with logging more dives but an arbitrary number doesn't tell you anything about how good a diver is. If things feel wierd, keep practicing them until you feel more comfortable. That's all I'm doing at this point.
Ciao!

 

[mania]

I still keep on hoping that a number of dives shows at least a little bit how expierience the diver is. After all "practice makes perfect", doesn't it?
Myself diving in different conditions and waters I always keep very detailed notes in my logbook about the configuration of the gears, weight etc. So next time I'm in the same place - I at least can chek and see what was OK and what was wrong. But I still consider myself as a begginer and maybe when I'll have 100+ dives I would be too lazy to take such detailed notes.
Mania

 

[pipedope]

The 'depth' and 'breadth' of dives is also important.

It is like the tradesman who has 10 years experience in his field. Different things happening all the time, getting more training all along, always learning and pushing into more and different challenges. Then think of the guy who also has 10 years experience but has simply done the same thing over and over for 10 repetitions of 1 year experience.
Who do you want on your team?

I say, it is better to log every dive. Log them as they are.
If you do a 10 minute test on scuba, log it that way.
Spend two hours sorting out equipment configuration in the pool? Log it as 2 hours sorting out equipment in the pool and record what worked and what didn't.

I don't log much anymore because my old, detailed logs were all lost in a fire and it really hurt. I sure wish I had those books now.

 

[PaulB]

I agree with a lot of people here. Real experiance cannot be decided by just the number of dives. It's the number of dives and the condition of the dives.
If on a dive you felt like you've learned something new, experianced something new, or found a new comfort with an old skill, it was a dive that you can gain experiance from.

Paul

 

[landlocked]

Firstly, A bit of background.. I've completed PADI OW, AOW, Drysuit & TDI Nitrox. This year Im looking at doing Rescue & TDI Adv. Nitrox. Currently, I have around 50 dives and have been diving nearly a year.............................So is # of dives a good way to measure skill?

What purpose does measuring skill have? Is this a competitive sport? (A more important question might be how safe a diver is.) I think that diving is what you chose to make out it. So is the number of dives that you have logged. Who am I going to impress with the number of dives I have. Certainly not many on this board. At least not the ones that I would like to impress. I think the fact that a diver is diving on a regular basis and taking an interest in learning and improving thier skills is more important than how many times they have surfaced for more than 10 minutes. Of course, that is just me. (By the way, I have 73 logged dives!) :icecream1

 

[TX101]

What purpose does measuring skill have? Is this a competitive sport? (A more important question might be how safe a diver is.) I think that diving is what you chose to make out it. So is the number of dives that you have logged. Who am I going to impress with the number of dives I have. Certainly not many on this board. At least not the ones that I would like to impress. I think the fact that a diver is diving on a regular basis and taking an interest in learning and improving thier skills is more important than how many times they have surfaced for more than 10 minutes. Of course, that is just me. (By the way, I have 73 logged dives!) :icecream1

Im asking about measuring skill because most advanced/technical diving courses use # of dives as a skill indicator before allowing you to take the course.

 

[okinawascuba]

The number of dives is an indicator of experience simply because a definition of experience is "The totality of such events in the past of an individual..." Now, that tells you how much someone has been diving, though as has been pointed out, it does not tell you how much bottom time they have. More importantly, it does not tell you ANYTHING about how safe or skilled that diver is.

I went diving a few weeks ago with a guy who has many more dives under his BC than me plus an additional guy who is a friend. Was the "more experienced" diver a safe or a better diver than me? Nope. MY friend and I are both OW-only divers and relatively inexperienced (I have 24 dives/16 hours bottomtime, other guy probably 15 dives, <10 hrs), and the "more experienced" diver recommended diving a dangerous site with strong currents and 100' depth. That's a sign of idiocy, not experience.

That being said, I am hoping to hit 60 dives this year if my wife and sea conditions will let me.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

So is # of dives a good way to measure skill?

The simple answer is no ... it's not a good way to measure skill. Unfortunately, it's the best way there is without actually getting into the water with somebody. That's why you'll see it used as a way to set minimum requirements for courses.

Fact is that people learn at different rates, and pick up different things in different ways. I have over 850 dives ... and I know people with a quarter of my logged dives who have mastered some skills better than me. Conversely, I know some people with two or three times my experience who don't have as much skill in some areas as I do.

Skill is a relative term in diving, because it also includes your mindset, judgement, the type of diving you do, and what you think of as important enough to actually pay attention to (with respect to making an effort to improve).

In real terms, the number of logged dives is only a good measure of diving skills when you use them to compare against yourself a given number of dives ago ... in other words, as a means to measure your own progress. There is no way you can use it to measure skill level from diver to diver.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)