Is ScubaBoard against local dive shops?

[bbarnett51]

I see local dive shops as the hub for area divers. My shop gives me first class service and training. Neither of which I can get online. Whatever, I want to try out they tell me to get in the pool and give it a whirl.

But to answer your question, no I don't think SB is against LDS but some on here appear to be.

 

[The Chairman]

AFAIK, the owner and staff of the board have never taken a position, one way or another.

I'm sorry Bob, but when you are wrong, you are way wrong!

I love LDSes. I do. My SO, mselenous manages one here in Key Largo. I go out of my way to patronize them and when I do have a gripe, I hardly (if ever) identify the guilty shop. Moreover, I can't tell you how many hours I have spent trying to train dive shops, manufacturers and resorts on how to use the internet for their own benefit. I have often gone out on a limb to tell someone that their message here could be better and then I try to give them some concrete steps to improve their reputation here on ScubaBoard. Ask Jim! He'll tell you that I'm not that shy in trying to help businesses grow and letting them know when they are silting out the place. Think about it: the LDS will be the first to tell you that training is important, yet they feel that they can swim with the sharks on the internet without nary a lesson. It's time for them to make the effort to learn some new skills.

Why do I try? Well, LDSes really aren't my target audience. They're not. Some do take advantage of the great advertising opportunities we have in our local forums, but I understand that most just don't have the resources to spend a $100/month to advertise. No, they aren't vital to ScubaBoard's existence when it comes to our cash flow and in fact, I often feel that we succeed in spite of them and their misplaced ire. Still, they are a very important part of our industry's ecology. If the dive shops go under, our industry and our ability to pursue our passion will be severely curtailed. That would be horrible! Divers need the LDS, ergo ScubaBoard needs the LDS and we'll do whatever we can do to help them out. I mean that!

This isn't just some idle boast on my part either. Take me up on it. Call me. PM me. Email me. Find one of the many classes that I give at DEMA or the other dive shows and get ready to learn. No, I'm not another Social Media Douchebag: I'm the real thing. ScubaBoard can help you get your dive shop into the 21st Century and it will cost you only time. No, I'm not going to waste your money on things that really won't help you in the long run. Jazzed up websites and SEOs are fine but they can only help you so much. They depend on you having a solid understanding of social media. Unfortunately, for many dive shops that amounts to having a Facebook page and Tweeting whenever they remember it. If this is your idea of social media, you are missing out. We can help!

I remember our first DEMA in Houston. I would introduce myself as the owner of the World's largest website devoted to diving and almost everyone would smile and just turn away. It was humbling to find out how many dive professionals had never heard of us. We were indeed the industry's best kept secret. The divers knew about us, but the industry just scratched it's collective head. Today, there are still a few who have never heard of us, but there are many, many more who really don't understand us, you or what the community is all about. They'll spend hours on other social media sites that are not devoted to Scuba Diving and avoid ScubaBoard. ScubaBoard is like a well stoked pond, yet they are content to troll the vast unknown with little if any direction. We've been doing social media for Scuba Diving since before the inception of Facebook! We have the divers the LDSes are looking for if only they will make the effort to learn how to be a part of this awesome community.

Or they continue to gripe about how the world is passing them by.

 

[drrich2]

It's been pointed out in another thread before that prior to the Internet, local dive shops may've had a somewhat unchallenged role in dispensing scuba info. in their areas. I imagine this would've varied a lot geographically. Internet communities seriously undermined that info. monopoly role. This might've had an impact on some shops.

Competing in the modern day is daunting. Scuba Toys was mentioned, and I shop there online. But how many LDS's can ramp up to provide the range of products, and handle the shipping demands and added work of phone & e-mail follow-ups when things don't go swimmingly, and compete on price, too? With Scuba Toys, for example.

Combining these ideas, let's say 20 years ago in a more inland site like Kentucky, etc..., there might've been a local dive shop or two, and a number of area divers trained there, bought gear there, and accepted the advice of store personal & store-affiliated instructors as factual, got their training there, etc...

Cut to today; same students take cheap OW classes, maybe do their AOW on a Caribbean vacation, use the LDS as a gear showroom but decide they'd rather get different brands/models of gear cheaper online (e.g.: maybe local shop sells AquaLung, but after reviewing ScubaBoard threads they're determined to have a Zeagle rip cord-based Ranger BCD, Atomic Aquatics B2 reg., Atomic Smoke on the Water Split Fins, and a Cobalt dive computer, none of which the LDS carries). You can have a shop trying to make a living on air fills, lots of cheap OW classes, quarry entrance fees (if fortunate to own a scuba quarry), some gear servicing and occasional gear sales. And when they try to educate customers, they get debate based on 'well, I heard on the Internet that...'

I don't think ScubaBoard is anti-LDS.

I'm glad I don't make a living running a LDS.

Richard.

 

[Graeme Tolton]

Not all lds' are the same, so they cannot be generalized like this. There are good ones and there are bad ones. I prefer not to deal with any if i can. I live an hour from the closest shop, so i invested in my own air system. I maintain it myself. I really dont think that sb is against the lds, because very simply there would be no sb in the first place if we hadnt had lds' because the sport wouldnt have propegated.

In general, i prefer internet shopping. I can make an informed decision and buy the best product rather than having someone pushing the product with the highest margin.

 

[yarik83]

Scubaboard has like 16 LDS vs Online threads each with 20 some pages worth of comments. General consensus is that people want to shop smart.

Before advent of internet personal shopping options were limited to going into a store of your choice within driving distance and ordering from catalog. Catalogs never had prices attached so shoppers were completely blind and accepted prices without raising any questions.

Internet changed that really fast really quick and shined light on exactly how much local stores were marking up price.

It is often cheaper to buy online and have it delivered to your doorway than it is buying same thing from a local shop. On the other hand internet does not quite offer service and maintenance as much as shops do.

Biggest problem with LDS is that they do not want to become franchises. After all its far more profitable to prey on fewer clueless clients than it is to give your income to be a franchise and have price regulations. But that is a whole different argument.

In any case welcome to year 2012 local dive shops. Time to wake up and get in with the times.

 

[Bob DBF]

Competing in the modern day is daunting. Scuba Toys was mentioned, and I shop there online. But how many LDS's can ramp up to provide the range of products, and handle the shipping demands and added work of phone & e-mail follow-ups when things don't go swimmingly, and compete on price, too? With Scuba Toys, for example.

I agree that competing in the modern day is daunting. On the other hand, some people will not change their business model to include competing.

As an example, I was going to buy a pony bottle so I talked to an LDS while filling tanks. I ask what it cost to get a pony bottle from them. After doing their research the price was twice what it was online and didn't include the valve and I pay up front and it would take a couple of weeks. I told them what bottle I wanted, where I was going to get it from, and what it cost with the valve and they still wouldn't budge on the price. So I ordered it myself and got it with free shipping in 5 days.

I managed a retail store, and that transaction could have made the shop money but they didn't even try to reel me in. I would have paid more to have them deal with it, just not an extravagent amount more.

It is not ScubaBoard that is against LDS, it is the LDS not changing with the marketplace.




Bob
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I may be old, but I’m not dead yet.

 

[k ellis]

Well I think alot of it is LDS are coming to realize the world is a changing place. There is to some degree some comfort in knowing if you get your regs serviced by an LDS and it fails due to their error they are liable. But the fact is many divers learn how to do service on their gear and are comfortable with their results.

Dive Shops existed all the way up until the dawn of the information age in the fact that you could walk in buy your gear and leave. It was daunting and challenging to deal with gear through mail order as often you had to send payment then wait 2-3 days for it to arrive and then another 2 - 10 days for it to arrive.

You were limited with your ability to check out competition as you had to sift through magazines or friends who knew of another dive shop elsewhere in order to know they existed just under 100 miles from you. Dive Shops relished the fact people would not spend days sorting competition through various shops else where to save 10 dollars.

Then when the internet came out people could click a button and instantly see prices any where in the world and have it in as little as 24 hours in many cases. Lds dont like for people to spend money at the competition because they loose money on it. But the fact is with 10 minutes of work now netting in some rare cases thousands of dollars in savings why would they like people going on the net? Of course they would view anything on the net as evil to their business! They do not want to accept that the old way of making 500 percent or more markup is no longer viable.

A buddy of mine whos house burned down along with all of his gear has gotten insurance settlement and wanted to go all out with the finest gear to replace his burned up gear. He is ordering gear for both him and his boy whos gear was also lost. He told me he spoke with Leisurepro on the phone and asked for the best price possible and through the sheer volume of what he is wanting he is on course to save thousands of dollars over what hed spend in the LDS. I can not blame him either as its the exact same gear though the LDS may preach the you will die if you buy story line played out as often as the race card these days.

LDS are like any other business though. Millions of people the world over love diving. They live for it and would love to teach it so the demand is in jeopardy as the market floods with independent divemasters and instructors. Its a certainty we all have one thing in common. We want a roof over our heads and food on our tables. When there is more supply then there is demand the of course everyone wants to make enough to live and if there is limited clientel then they will drop prices and do what ever they must to survive and it becomes a survival of the fittest. Bad for instructors and LDS but excellent for people wanting to become divers as it is now becoming more and more affordable!

 

[TMHeimer]

I've been in quite a few LDSs now. Once in a while I mention dive forums in general and the usual response has been "I don't do the forum thing very much", etc. I don't know if that's a polite way to say they don't like them or not. Maybe some just don't care or have the time to get involved with forums. Side note: I'm retired--how do all you folks that have day jobs have time for SB? As far as SB goes--No, I don't think there is any partiality one way or another toward shops.

 

[koozemani]

From the threads I've read concerning this topic, there are excellent arguments made for both buying online vs the Lds. The bottom line is that we need lds's. If they don't learn to compete they will fail. If they don't over good service they will fail. If they don't embrace the changing market and emphasize what they can offer that Internet can't they will fail.

I love my Lds. I love the people, the atmosphere, and being able to walk in and have someone remember my name. They don't offer all of the brands I prefer, but I will spend my money there on those they do carry. Often their prices will be competitive with online stores without me needing to haggle.

To the op, as a whole I have not seen SB be anti-Lds. You will see some bad reviews, but you will also see great ones from individual posters. I have never gotten the feeling that there is an anti-Lds culture on the board.

 

[k ellis]

I've been in quite a few LDSs now. Once in a while I mention dive forums in general and the usual response has been "I don't do the forum thing very much", etc. I don't know if that's a polite way to say they don't like them or not. Maybe some just don't care or have the time to get involved with forums. Side note: I'm retired--how do all you folks that have day jobs have time for SB? As far as SB goes--No, I don't think there is any partiality one way or another toward shops.

a good dive shop wont get caught up in politics that forums have. one wrongly worded response can make a lot of people think less of your business. Its easier in many cases to just let the cards land where they will rather then blow them back up in the air and wait for a better response!