is tech worth it? advise needed

[hollydayver]

Thinking about tec
Presentation
I am at the divemaster level, this summer i am going for 2 month in the Philippines and i am thinking about getting tech certified.
I started diving nearly 20 years ago, but I only dive during the holidays because I can’t dive anywhere near where I live.
LEARN ING
After my intro diving I fell in love with diving, but after my OW course I fell in love with PADI. I don’t know if it is the same with all training agency, but I realy loved the padi education system; I always feel magically transformed after a course. U take a person and then a few days later they are a new person with distinct new skills that are deeply ingrained. It seems like a magical or alchemical transmutation. With each course I felt I was taking a quantum leap in my abilities. I know a lot of you emphasis experience over training, but from my own experience I would rater dive with a fresh RD with 25 dives than an OW with 2500 dives., because I know the RD standard, and the varied types of dives he did in AOW and not the real level of the experienced guy.

I know I needed a class to teach me things, because I didn’t have the luxury to get to that level by experience given how few opportunities I had to dive. I believe that a class, specially a hands on , well conceived one , is a huge time saver of experience.

MY STORY/ DIVE EDUCATION

Anyways that’s why, in Thailand I took in a row OW, AOW and five PADI specialities, but by the end I was feeling like I learned all there was to learn and found that just diving without learning new skill a bit boring . because of that and a lack of budget I didn’t dive for like ‘4, 5 years after that.

Then during a holiday in Bali I got hooked again and continued my education with Rescue diver, CPR and divemaster. These classes were extremely challenging and I felt I was just glimpsing at all there was to learn. I was more then in love with the PADI education system and got interested in becoming an instructor but couldn’t yet because I had less than 60 dives at the end of my DM training.

The next year I went to the red sea on a month long diving trip to fill up my dive log. Though I still found regular ” fun” dive excursions a bit boring, I worked my way around it. With each dive, I worked on my skills. by the end of the holiday, working on respiration, flotability, movement, relaxation… I had more than doubled my dive air time, and exteremly boosted up my buoyancy and my general diving level .


The year after I went back to bali to get my instructor course. That was a huge disappointment and I was realy disenchanted with padi and diving. I mean, I never intended to really teach, I mean at home I can’t even dive, let alone train other divers. I though that like every other course I got I would become a better diver. I mean the IDC is the next level in a logical progression course. Maybe my center was not clear enough in what was entailed in the course or maybe I fooled myself I don’t know.

Anyways it was the worse course I ever took, and was so boring. I also resented a lot the standardised role model bit because by then I had my own personal way of diving and doing things. I was so disgusted by the class, among other things, that I didn’t take the IE . I still had to fork for the IDC and the folders and cards and all , over $2000 of regrets if I remember correctly…

Anyways, at the end of it I was disgusted and though I would never dive again. I din’t see any learning opportuinity on the horizon, and as I said just diving to see the pretty fishes is really just not my thing. So I have stoped diving for years .


However, I am now headed for the Philippines for 2 months, and I got hooked again. Of course I will do a few regular dives as a refresher till I get back at least to my DM level.
Now what I am increasingly obsessing around is technical diving and I have a few questions about that.

]*is it worth it to go technical?

I mean I don’t really understand why there are so many courses. I mean dving is diving, just because you breath something else do u really need all those classes??

I mean I have done many “technical” type dives on air. I dived in several wrecks, in caverns, solo, and below 50 metters. I have a hard time understanding that just because you have to do a deco stop longer than a “safety” stop and breath a different mix that you need so much training. I guess I could understand that if you are diving on your own and filling your own bottles and stuff. But I know I’ll always dive in dive centers and with a professional guide, so I don’t entirely see the need apart from an intellectual pov. Can someone please explain this?

“ CLASSES
The main attraction in tech fo r me is the challenge of 80+ meters dives. For this, if I understand correctly, I need to take Nitrox+Adv Nitrox+ decompression+ extended range (not sure if this one is mandatory)+ trimix+adv trimix,

I mean that does seem a lot of courses just to go under 200 feet . I looked around the organizations and It seemed that TDI has the shortest, least expensive path to the depths, is that correct?. I saw that IANDT has a similar one but classes are more expensive.
I saw that this series of classes is over $2000 with a combined time longer than 15 days with bulk package rates. I saw such an offer in a philippines dive center in Puerto Gallera.

Ideally I wanted to do the GUE series because it is close to my diving philosophy but I saw that they need 200 and 300 loged dives to qualify to take the adv courses, which at my present rate will be when I am over seventy years old; I could just take the GUE fundamentals but I don’t have the budget for it this trip.

I know that I could just take a few of those classes and fun dive, but the only classe that really interested me is the adv trimix one.
If I do that series, the $2000 price tag will hinder my budget and I certainly won’t be able to spare money for any additional dives or courses during the rest of my trip.

Is there any alternatives?

Is it possible, in order to lower costs to download the manuals and just to get the cert card for the highest of the courses or do u need to be and official ean, adv, deco, trimix before getting the adv trimix cert.?

Once again is it worth it, I mean I am burning to try at least once these types of dives, but due to my low budget I will probably not do many tech dives in the future, and will most likely revert to air.

Also one of my worries is that after getting to adv trimix I won’t have much opportunity to learn new things, I mean there is specilities such as cave and tech and CC rebreathers and that’t it….

Do you have any suggestions, remarks, idea….?

Anyways, sorry for the long message, but I thought you should get the whole picture before advising me. Sorry for any spelling mistake and awkwardness, I am not a native speaker. Thanks in advance.

 

[VooDooGasMan]

I would get certified from Devon, he is a member and a mod here on scubaboard and in the phillippines.

 

[ddmattos]

I would contact devondiver. He is tech instructor in Manila.

 

[Jax]

Hi, HollyDayver! Welcome to ScubaBoard!! :wavey:

I'm a little concerned about this: ". . . but by the end I was feeling like I learned all there was to learn and found that just diving without learning new skill a bit boring"

It sounds like you are more in love with training than with actual diving. If you do not find diving exciting enough, maybe diversify to other sports?

As others said, contact DevonDiver. I think that, one-on-one, you'll get a better outlook on tech diving and any further advanced diving.

 

[japan-diver]

I almost hesitate to answer this post but here goes: if you think that all there is to tech diving is switching gases and hanging a bit for deco you have a lot to learn about diving and dive planning. There is very little in the PADI system that prepares you for technical diving or the dealing with the problems that can occur at the extreme depths you are talking about (80+ meters). In technical diving training - you get what you pay for- the quickest cheapest route for technical training is never a good idea. As your diving gets deeper and more complex your margin for error is smaller and smaller - good tech training not only gets you back safely from the dive where everything goes right but also from dive where things go wrong. It also trains you to plan dives and equipment selection so that problems do not occur in the first place. To safely execute technical dives not only is good training needed but also time to practice and hone skills learned in class. I have been working full time in the dive industry for over 15 years and have over 13,000 dives and I teach and dive trimix to what some consider very deep depths but I still find that I always have more to learn about diving. Along with my teaching schedule I also find time to take a dive class or two a year and am always learning something new - there is always someone who knows a bit more about diving than you do. With your experience you have years of knowledge to develop to become a better more knowledgeable diver and will never run out of new things to learn. Find a good quality instructor and start there- interview the instructor before hand - see if they have continued there training - a good instructor is always learning so should have taken classes themselves recently. Is tech worth it - only you can answer that questions. I tell all my tech students that tech diving is a commitment of time and money but for those willing to commit the time and money it is very rewarding experience.

 

[DevonDiver]

It's a big jump into tech - and excellent rec diving skills only form a foundation for that. I've never met a tech diver (including myself) who didn't find tech training a humbling experience.

If/when you're in the Philippines, head up to Subic and do a dive/s with me. See if you feel there's more to learn.

 

[Griffo]

Uhm, the original post is a troll right?

 

[TSandM]

No, I don't think it is. I have seen people for whom a lot of the fun in diving is the challenge of taking classes. In general, they take a lot of classes, and within a few years, they're off doing something else for fun instead of diving.

I think classes ARE fun, and challenges are fun. And technical classes are challenges, and bring your skills and your coping abilities to a new level. But the risks involved in doing technical dives are not trivial. If you haven't thought about what you are going to do when your buddy is ill or injured or otherwise distressed or incapacitated, and you are facing an hour of mandatory deco that you'll have to blow off to take him to the surface, then you haven't really thought through 200 foot dives.

When I came on ScubaBoard in 2005, there was an article on the front page of the site entitled something like, "When blowing bubbles is no longer enough." The meat of the article was that each of us has to find a reason to keep diving, once the novelty of being underwater has worn off. Some people get into marine life, some get into photography, some get into wrecks and marine archaeology, some get into instruction. Some of us work through one after another! It sounds as though you are looking for your "reason to keep diving", and hoping you'll find it in tech diving. Well, I can tell you that tech diving is just diving -- it's deeper, darker, often colder, more expensive and riskier, but it's just diving. If you aren't excited by what you see when you get down there, diving deep will pall as well.

I got tech certified because there were very specific dives I wanted to do. I have done some of them, and I have thoroughly enjoyed them. But I do very little technical diving, because I am not a wreck person, and wrecks are a lot of the reason people really HAVE to go deep. If you are a vacation diver, I think you are going to find that the infrastructure to support travel tech diving can be hard to find, and the skills fade if they are not regularly used.

Given your original post, I would say that technical diving will be, at best, a temporary solution to your problem.

 

[RTee]

Some people take courses to challenge themselves, some for the additional knowledge and skill set they gain and others for the future application they intend to make once certified. Reading your post I am not quite sure you do have a future application (motivation) in mind beside a number (depth) on a dive computer. You seem to have some regrets about the money you spent on IDC...this amount just represents a fraction of what it costs for tech diving as you have to consider training, equipment and then the cost associated with diving itself (gas (especially considering trimix), travel, etc). Considering that your love for the sport seems to follow a roller coaster pattern, perhaps the money would be better spent towards your enjoyment of diving (instead of racking dives for number sake or training).

I get as much enjoyment conducting shallower type of dives over reefs and/or structures with my GF and other diving buddies (diving at exotic places and locally) and interacting with the marine life as I get going deeper and looking at wrecks except that my diving circle is somewhat more limited for the latter. My GF always wonders how can I derive some fun when she sees me putting on my drysuit, strapping dual 120s on my back, carrying one to two stage bottles and getting ready to spend quite a bit of time in mid to high 30s F water...lol.

 

[boulderjohn]

I was an instructor with an MSDT certification level when I took my first technical diving course. It may have been the most humbling experience of my life. I was shocked to find how much more I needed to know about diving. I was shocked at the skills I needed to have and that I frankly never before even realized existed.

Is it worth it for you?

You made a couple of statements that tell me the answer is no.

"But I know I’ll always dive in dive centers and with a professional guide, so I don’t entirely see the need apart from an intellectual pov."

Technical divers rarely dive in dive centers with professional guides, so if you have that limitation in mind, there is no point in going on. Unless by a dive center with a professional guide you are referring to requirements of certain cave systems, those places rarely take you to places that require technical diving skills.​

"“ CLASSES
The main attraction in tech fo r me is the challenge of 80+ meters dives. For this, if I understand correctly, I need to take Nitrox+Adv Nitrox+ decompression+ extended range (not sure if this one is mandatory)+ trimix+adv trimix,

I mean that does seem a lot of courses just to go under 200 feet . "

The issue is not going to 200 feet. Any idiot can do that. The issue is doing it for any useful length of time and being reasonably sure of coming back alive. If you just want to go to 200 feet and shoot back up, then, no, you don't all that training.​

"Ideally I wanted to do the GUE series because it is close to my diving philosophy but I saw that they need 200 and 300 loged dives to qualify to take the adv courses, which at my present rate will be when I am over seventy years old;"

If you don't have the time to do the handful of dives needed beyond your current levels to begin training, then you don't have time to get the tech training, either.​

"I could just take the GUE fundamentals but I don’t have the budget for it this trip."

That is a good starting point, but you should know that technical diving is pretty expensive, and if one class is a problem, then going the whole route will be an even bigger problem.​