Is there a better way to use a compass?

[dmoore19]

Here is one system. I have not used it but was recently on a boat when someone was using it and swore by it.

Underwater SCUBA Diver Navigation Devices

Not that I do that much navigation but this looks like a great piece of equipment. There will be those that proclaim there is no replacing training with equipment though.

 

[lowviz]

I want one!!!

 

[lowviz]

Matt, I'm not at all surprised that there is so much confusion with compasses. Why give someone two lubber lines with a window between them and numbers that rotate below the window then tell the user to ignore those numbers? Lovely design concept.

OK, pictured below is the compass I want someone to build:

Two discs that rotate along with the floating magnet. One marker on each disk, North and lubber dot. The lubber dot is just a simple offset of magnetic north.
The user must be able to easily set the offset. Once set, its location with respect to the north indicator doesn't change until the user resets it.

Operation has to be one-handed and simple:
1) Rotate external bezel (with respect to lubber line) to set the intended course.
2) Orient compass until North indicator is in notch.
3) To set lubber dot in window: Press top of case (while aligned to North) to capture both floating discs, harder presses change the lubber dot's position by a degree or so. Even harder presses produce larger changes in the lubber dot's location. Keep pressing top of case to turn the lubber dot disk with respect to the captured North disk until the lubber dot is between the lubber lines.


With this configuration, you get double confirmation of being on course as both the lubber dot and North tell you the same thing. You can watch whichever one you like better.

-send the royalty checks to ScubaBoard...

 

[FPDocMatt]

Matt, I'm not at all surprised that there is so much confusion with compasses. Why give someone two lubber lines with a window between them and numbers that rotate below the window then tell the user to ignore those numbers? Lovely design concept.

OK, pictured below is the compass I want someone to build:

Two discs that rotate along with the floating magnet. One marker on each disk, North and lubber dot. The lubber dot is just a simple offset of magnetic north.
The user must be able to easily set the offset. Once set, its location with respect to the north indicator doesn't change until the user resets it.

Operation has to be one-handed and simple:
1) Rotate external bezel (with respect to lubber line) to set the intended course.
2) Orient compass until North indicator is in notch.
3) To set lubber dot in window: Press top of case (while aligned to North) to capture both floating discs, harder presses change the lubber dot's position by a degree or so. Even harder presses produce larger changes in the lubber dot's location. Keep pressing top of case to turn the lubber dot disk with respect to the captured North disk until the lubber dot is between the lubber lines.


With this configuration, you get double confirmation of being on course as both the lubber dot and North tell you the same thing. You can watch whichever one you like better.

-send the royalty checks to ScubaBoard...

Thanks, this is precisely what I was talking about. This is exactly what we need. By keeping the dot inside the lubber lines, you are also keeping north between the tick marks. But you don't have to look in the direction you're not going to do it.

 

[lowviz]

-and degree numbers in the side window that CAN'T be seen from the top.

 

[MSltr]

Not so much a better way, but a better navigation system. A few years ago I took out a diver with a great device. Have been looking for it ever since with no luck. He had this transponder device that he hung on a rope off the side of the boat. On his wrist he had an electronic device that had a digital needle that always pointed to the device hanging off the boat. It also told him the distance to that device.
If anyone has come across such an instrument please let me know, I thought it was fantastic.

Google SCUBAPRO/UWATEC "NEVERLOST". It shows up on ebay every so often. The usual asking price is $500.00

 

[g1138]

Matt, I'm not at all surprised that there is so much confusion with compasses. Why give someone two lubber lines with a window between them and numbers that rotate below the window then tell the user to ignore those numbers? Lovely design concept.

OK, pictured below is the compass I want someone to build:

Two discs that rotate along with the floating magnet. One marker on each disk, North and lubber dot. The lubber dot is just a simple offset of magnetic north.
The user must be able to easily set the offset. Once set, its location with respect to the north indicator doesn't change until the user resets it.

Operation has to be one-handed and simple:
1) Rotate external bezel (with respect to lubber line) to set the intended course.
2) Orient compass until North indicator is in notch.
3) To set lubber dot in window: Press top of case (while aligned to North) to capture both floating discs, harder presses change the lubber dot's position by a degree or so. Even harder presses produce larger changes in the lubber dot's location. Keep pressing top of case to turn the lubber dot disk with respect to the captured North disk until the lubber dot is between the lubber lines.


With this configuration, you get double confirmation of being on course as both the lubber dot and North tell you the same thing. You can watch whichever one you like better.

-send the royalty checks to ScubaBoard...

Or you could just line up your degree heading with the lubber line and not deal with the bezel at all.
Look from the top or side window and line your heading up with your lubber line. Simple, already made, less parts to deal with.

The rotating bezel is to position your intended heading or in some preferences your return heading to shore. Line up N with the N on the bezel and you know you're heading in the direction you set on you bezel. If you want to head 280degrees, look for the number in your side window OR
View from the overhead window and from your perspective
1) line up 280 at the bottom of the window (closest to you)
2) make sure 280 is crossed by the lubber line.

It's the same concept as your compass except instead of turning the lubber line and lining up, you just line up. Some compasses have 2 lubber lines in which case you line up your heading between the lines.

You're triple tying your shoe when all you require is a double knot.

 

[lowviz]

Post #20 shows my favorite dive compass.

I can now easily ignore the extraneous crap. You need to realize that this is just a waterproof terrestrial compass.

One of the many things that I used to do for a living was to make user-friendly interfaces for very complex systems. It can be done. You just need a constant supply of people who have never ever seen what you are trying to get them to control.


Matt's viewpoint is key, yours is highly compromised.

 

[g1138]

Post #20 shows my favorite dive compass.

I can now easily ignore the extraneous crap. You need to realize that this is just a waterproof terrestrial compass.

One of the many things that I used to do for a living was to make user-friendly interfaces for very complex systems. It can be done. You just need a constant supply of people who have never ever seen what you are trying to get them to control.


Matt's viewpoint is key, yours is highly compromised.

You comment reminded of another type of compass that's less popular with scuba manufacturers. Most of the compasses every diver is used to is an indirect compass. But there are a few direct compasses which only have a top viewing window and a needle that points to Magnetic North. You orientate the bezel so your intended heading is at 12 o'clock. Then you align the needle with the North Symbol on the bezel.
Nice compromise? Seems to do what your original concept wanted, yet with less parts.

IKELITE PRO COMPASS

One reason why I don't like this type of compass as well as why I think it's not an industry standard is that you cannot easily swap headings without adjusting the bezel. This means if you have multiple headings, you either have to remember them or write them down as you're constantly making bezel adjustments when you want to head on a new specific heading.
The indirect compass types allow acquisition of a new heading on the fly without the need to adjust one's bezel.
Two different methods of navigation concepts. One's more flexible, the other is more precise.

 

[lowviz]

You comment reminded of another type of compass that's less popular with scuba manufacturers. Most of the compasses every diver is used to is an indirect compass. But there are a few direct compasses which only have a top viewing window and a needle that points to Magnetic North. You orientate the bezel so your intended heading is at 12 o'clock. Then you align the needle with the North Symbol on the bezel.
Nice compromise? Seems to do what your original concept wanted, yet with less parts.

IKELITE PRO COMPASS

One reason why I don't like this type of compass as well as why I think it's not an industry standard is that you cannot easily swap headings without adjusting the bezel. This means if you have multiple headings, you either have to remember them or write them down as you're constantly making bezel adjustments when you want to head on a new specific heading.
The indirect compass types allow acquisition of a new heading on the fly without the need to adjust one's bezel.
Two different methods of navigation concepts. One's more flexible, the other is more precise.

Nice response, and I mean that.

Yes, there are other ways. However, I feel that the industry needs a much more intuitive training compass. Something that can be comprehended while adjusting buoyancy and checking on one's buddy.