ISO Certification for Dive Classes

[wreckchick]

I think it can be agreed on that the basic skills needed to pass an OW test are roughly the same from agency to agency. It's not the standards that don't meet the basic needs, it's the way they are implemented by the individual instructor that is sometimes/often found lacking.

I don't think that writing yet another set of standards will clear anything up for anyone. It's hard enough to figure out where to get training and with what agency as it is without putting another sticker on the door of the shop.

If all the instructors for the different agencies were all living up to their reponsibilities to teach the standards as they are, I don't think we'd be having this converstation.

JMHO (of course)

R

 

[MikeFerrara]

biscuit7 once bubbled...
I think it can be agreed on that the basic skills needed to pass an OW test are roughly the same from agency to agency. It's not the standards that don't meet the basic needs, it's the way they are implemented by the individual instructor that is sometimes/often found lacking.

I don't think that writing yet another set of standards will clear anything up for anyone. It's hard enough to figure out where to get training and with what agency as it is without putting another sticker on the door of the shop.

If all the instructors for the different agencies were all living up to their reponsibilities to teach the standards as they are, I don't think we'd be having this converstation.

JMHO (of course)

R

I don't agree. One problem we have is that some don't follow the intent of existing standards. A seperate issue is that some of us believe the standards fall short.

Some examples...
What agency requires OW students to be tought trim and actually achieve it?

Skills off the bottom?

Anti silting techniques performed successfully?

That students actually demonstrate buddy skills during their training dives?


Another sticker on the Door is exactly what I need. I need a way to distinguish our class from the $99 special down the street. It could also give the student a way to tell the difference.

Again if I am understanding WJL correctly this would not be an effort to fix what we see as an ailing industry. It would be an attempt at offering an alternative.

Speaking for myself I'm not talking about adding in skills that have been removed. I'm talking setting the kind of standards that have never existed in the first place.

The more I think about it the more I like the idea. Walter has pointed out many times that agencies differ. Fine but I think they all fall short. Go to Gilboa or Haigh and you'll see that they all look the same in the water. I'm not about to dump a bunch more time and money into crossing over to another agency just so I can be associated with a different group of idiots who's students can't dive.

 

[wreckchick]

Mike,

I think it's fantastic that your students are as well turned out as they are and I commend you for taking the time to teach them all these skills and preparing them that much further for the diving environment.

Have you considered offering your courses as an OW/AOW combined class instead of just issuing the OW card? I think that your students would see the benefit in continuing on to the AOW level and I have no doubt that they would be able to meet the skills required to feel good about the AOW card. That would be the added benefit and you could better sell that as a way to show why your course is preferable to other shops that just do the OW cert.

If that's not a great option for you, what about the Peak Performance Buoyancy specialty? Add in another certification and you can justify the added cost with the benefit of the skills the students will have. It would be easier to have them see something tangible for their added money and effort.

R

 

[MikeFerrara]

biscuit7 once bubbled...
Mike,

I think it's fantastic that your students are as well turned out as they are and I commend you for taking the time to teach them all these skills and preparing them that much further for the diving environment.

Have you considered offering your courses as an OW/AOW combined class instead of just issuing the OW card? I think that your students would see the benefit in continuing on to the AOW level and I have no doubt that they would be able to meet the skills required to feel good about the AOW card. That would be the added benefit and you could better sell that as a way to show why your course is preferable to other shops that just do the OW cert.

If that's not a great option for you, what about the Peak Performance Buoyancy specialty? Add in another certification and you can justify the added cost with the benefit of the skills the students will have. It would be easier to have them see something tangible for their added money and effort.

R

We've done all that. It's still just a PADI card.

 

[WJL]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...


I don't agree. One problem we have is that some don't follow the intent of existing standards. A seperate issue is that some of us believe the standards fall short.

Some examples...
What agency requires OW students to be tought trim and actually achieve it?

Skills off the bottom?

Anti silting techniques performed successfully?

That students actually demonstrate buddy skills during their training dives?


Another sticker on the Door is exactly what I need. I need a way to distinguish our class from the $99 special down the street. It could also give the student a way to tell the difference.

Again if I am understanding WJL correctly this would not be an effort to fix what we see as an ailing industry. It would be an attempt at offering an alternative.

Speaking for myself I'm not talking about adding in skills that have been removed. I'm talking setting the kind of standards that have never existed in the first place.

The more I think about it the more I like the idea. Walter has pointed out many times that agencies differ. Fine but I think they all fall short. Go to Gilboa or Haigh and you'll see that they all look the same in the water. I'm not about to dump a bunch more time and money into crossing over to another agency just so I can be associated with a different group of idiots who's students can't dive.

This is really what I have in mind - not an attempt to change the way the existing agencies operate, but a separate alternative. The standards to be met should be set at a much higher level than the standards accepted by most of the existing agencies. I think this new standard-setting and certification agency should focus on the shops and not individual instructors - yes, instructors come and go, but the shop should establish the level of instruction they provide. The class is the shop's product. The shop hires and trains its workers - the instructors - to provide the type of product it wants to sell.

 

[Walter]

You ignore the fact that a great many instructors are independents.

Maybe I should go into this business. Anyone willing to pay for my evaluation?

 

[MikeFerrara]

Walter once bubbled...
You ignore the fact that a great many instructors are independents.

I'm thinking that an independant could be handeled the same as a shop or school.

Maybe I should go into this business. Anyone willing to pay for my evaluation?

Maybe you should. Can I see your standards and get a description of the evaluation process and your plan?

With your dedication you might even consider providing the service on a not for profit basis.

 

[Walter]

"With your dedication you might even consider providing the service on a not for profit basis."

Not a bad idea at all.

"Can I see your standards and get a description of the evaluation process and your plan?"

As soon as those items are developed, you'll be one of the first to see it. Actually, I'd want your input in development.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Walter once bubbled...
"With your dedication you might even consider providing the service on a not for profit basis."

Not a bad idea at all.

"Can I see your standards and get a description of the evaluation process and your plan?"

As soon as those items are developed, you'll be one of the first to see it. Actually, I'd want your input in development.

I'm willing.