Japanese tourist killed by boat prop off of Phuket

[windapp]

True, but there is no "drill button positions until you can do it with your eyes closed".
This is something you do based on your own personal skill and experience. I am not trying to criticize PADI or any instructor. I am just saying that maybe there is something to be learned here, and that maybe a change to the wording of the curiculum might be in order.

It may also be a good idea that, when OW students are submerged, the boats not be allowed to run their propelers, and that the first two classes not be allowed in areas with high boat traffic. Student's in the first class have a very narrow perspective that only widens with experience, and this could have just as easily happened without equipment issues given the wrong set of circumstances.

 

[Quero]

I'm not sure I agree with you there, windapp. The standards tell us what exit performance is required, not what we have to do to achieve that performance. If the performance requirement is that student divers exhibit mastery in inflating and deflating their BCDs, it shouldn't matter that one instructor's technique is different from another instructor's technique.

And if we never take student divers to areas where certified divers are being dropped off and picked up, how will they ever develop the skills necessary for these drops and pickups? The tour portion of each open water dive is precisely when most of the real learning about diving takes place. I would hate for that to be limited to the third and fourth dives only.

I think this was most likely just a horrible, tragic accident. While it can certainly be argued that even one death is too many, it's simply impossible to eliminate all potential risk. Accidents here are rare enough, and in my 11 years of diving in the region, this is the first prop accident I have knowledge of in Phuket among thousands and thousands and thousands of pickups every year.

Having said that, I will add that we are having serious discussions here on vigilance and safety procedures for live boat drops and pickups. I think, for example, that having a prop guard law would have helped. Perhaps it wouldn't have prevented an injury altogether, but maybe she would have survived at least.

 

[windapp]

Backing off on my opinion of what the solution is since I am not a diving professional by any means...

If a student diver dies from something that would never have happened to an experienced diver, either one of the professionals didn't follow correct procedure, or the procedure was not correct.

 

[Quero]

I understand what you are saying, windapp. The fact is, though, that these kinds of accidents do happen to certified divers. There was a propeller death in Malaysia a couple of years ago (also a Japanese woman), and another in Malaysia before that (a Brit). Both were certified divers. There was a prop accident in Catalina (California) maybe 6 or 7 years ago, but it wasn't serious, as I recall. Some were boat driver error, some diver error. But if prop guards had been in place, maybe they would all have been less noteworthy than they ultimately became.

 

[windapp]

Absent inflator failure, experienced divers do not accidentally inflate their BCD and rocket to the surface.

 

[sitges]

What , exactly is a "safety sausage" ?.......Never mind googled it

 

[DandyDon]

Prop accidents with divers are too common. There is an extensive discussion in Scuba Related Court Cases - ScubaBoard about an experienced diver who was hit on surfacing by a speedboat even after the dive boat tried to block him. Very lousy story involving an ER physician who was driving, fled the scene, received only a fine, and I think is actually suing some of the divers for libel now. I do hope he is unemployable at least.

And then this amazing story from last year: Swimmer cut in half by boat propeller ...even as the boat captain remained unrepentant, saying "if I stopped, I would have chopped up lots of people".

Oh, and I have seen experienced divers confuse the buttons and rocket to the surface, enough that my bud & I use dump valves only - but that has risks too.

Prop guards would help yes, if on all boats in the world, but that isn't going to happen. I don't know the best answer but I strive to guard myself.

 

[vladimir]

When I was on the Palau Aggressor the skiff was jet powered--no exposed propellers. It's a nice solution for live pickups in general, and especially where there are shallow reefs. Probably not cost-effective in most cases, though.

 

[Quero]

Backing off on my opinion of what the solution is since I am not a diving professional by any means...

If a student diver dies from something that would never have happened to an experienced diver, either one of the professionals didn't follow correct procedure, or the procedure was not correct.

Absent inflator failure, experienced divers do not accidentally inflate their BCD and rocket to the surface.

windapp, I'm not here to debate blame. In fact, this entire forum is supposed to be clear of blamestorming. Our purpose here, according the forum rules, is to talk about causes and responses.

Since the victim apparently inflated her BCD and had a runaway ascent straight into the boat, we believe we know the cause. We don't know the trigger--you are assuming she accidentally hit the wrong button, but we don't really know this; maybe she just decided she needed to get to the surface for some unknown reason and irrationally inflated the BCD to do so. I've seen students jam down on the inflator to ascend even when not in a panic, and even after I've repeatedly stressed to them that they must swim themselves up during ascent rather than using the BCD as an elevator.

As for responses, if we speculate that she did mistake her buttons, we can respond by:
• Making certain we follow standards and train students in confined water using the same gear they will use in open water.
• Making sure that students really do have mastery of inflating and deflating their BCDs.
• Keeping a close eye on students' hands to make sure they are not pressing the wrong button.

If we speculate that she freaked out for some reason and "needed" to get to the surface, fast, we can respond by:
• Evaluating our students' psychological readiness for open water dive training.
• Monitoring students' comfort level underwater, asking frequently if they are okay.
• Keeping an eye on students' hands to make sure they don't shoot themselves to the surface by inflating their BCDs as a response to anxiety.

If we speculate that boat handling procedures contributed to the accident, we can respond by:
• Emphasizing the use of surface markers.
• Militating for the adoption of prop guards on all props.

Etc.

But assigning blame by saying that "either one of the professionals didn't follow correct procedure, or the procedure was not correct"? This is really not the place for it. Mishap analysis does not lay blame, it finds causes and gives us lessons we can apply to making our own diving safer.

You don't have to be a dive professional to profit from these lessons.

 

[Mr.X]

To me - sounds like a instructional issue. The instructor has to have control (visual/physical) of the students at all times. I know that in countries other than the United States liability is different. Some folks playing fast and loose with standards. In this case - especially with students on dive one I would have some method of controlled ascent available to the students. A sausage tied to the bottom being one method of controlled ascent.

From what I read - it sounds very much a like this accident could have been prevented if the instructor had been more prudent. As the dive vessel was flagged over for retrieval...very hard to ascertain where the divers are when you are underway, and at the helm.

As Vladimir suggested - covered props could go a long way towards preventing accidents like this. As Don suggested - I am not a fan of live boat pickup. Especially with newbies in the water.

X