Junior open water certification To Open Water certification

[rstofer]

I was certified when I was 16, so I had the Junior open water certification. Now I have turned 18 and am turning 19 soon. I looked at my card and realized that it still said Junior open water certification. Basically my question is that if you are certified as a "junior" when yo turn 18 does your certification drop the Junior part and become Open Water Certified?

Assuming PADI, all you need to do is buy a PIC card, fill out the information and fill in the circle for "Upgrade from Junior Certification Level. It would probably be best to get an instructor to help fill out the card. It may not be necessary to fill in every block and it might be counter-productive.

But there is a selection circle...

Richard

 

[gunny6968]

What all is incorporated with Jr certification. I mean can he open water dive and all that? Thanks for the previous answer.

 

[Jeff Toorish]

Crazy as it is: 10...

<TED>

Why is that crazy? My daughter, Sammi, was certified at 10 and got her Jr. AOW at 11. She is one of the most precise and safe divers I know. Junior divers have greater restrictions and must dive with a parent or dive professional. Sammi is now 14 years old has been published writing about scuba.

In contrast, my son was certified at 17 and while he is a reasonably competant diver, he is not nearly as precise (although fun to dive with).

Can you point to any statistical or scientific data that indicates that someone learning to dive at 10 is dangerous or even problematic? Since 1931 more than 600 children in the US have died playing football, many of them very young. Every year thousands of kids are injured playing recreational sports, especially football and soccer. Hundreds of those injuries are permanent.

I have not heard of a single junior diver being injured, have you? Clearly there are far more kids playing team sports than diving, but there are young divers out there as well.

Regarding the OP, there are some minor differences between the agencies but for the most part, you can transfer your junior certification to a regular certification at 15.

Jeff

 

[rstofer]

What all is incorporated with Jr certification. I mean can he open water dive and all that? Thanks for the previous answer.

Jr Open Water (JOW) is the complete OW program including every single bit of training that any other new diver receives. Generally, the class sizes are limited by the agency standards and, for my grandson, it was one-on-one. Sure, that costs a little more but the chances of finding more than one 10 year old at a time to make up a larger class seemed remote.

JOW divers are restricted to 40' and must dive with a certified parent/guardian, divemaster or instructor. So, there are limits; a 10 year old will not be diving with another 10 year old.

Maturity and attention to detail are important for JOW divers. But the parent/professional is right there to help them gain experience. Safely...

I would think that it would be a good idea to have the JOW divers retake a long scuba course at some point. I don't believe they fully understand the implications of depth, time and decompression although it is possible that they pick this up over time.

Richard

 

[Diver0001]

Maturity and attention to detail are important for JOW divers. But the parent/professional is right there to help them gain experience. Safely...

I think the whole idea of the JOW cert is essentially flawed. If you can't teach someone to dive well enough to handle themselves then they really shouldn't be in the water. The problem isn't even so much the kids, most of them can dive better than their parents.... but frankly..... to be honest .... I think many people are not good enough divers themselves to be supervising kids.

Case in point. Last weekend I had one of my OW students out for a dive at a busy dive spot. At some point a group of three divers passed us. One adult in the middle and two young teenagers (I met their father later, which is why I know this), one left of him and one right of him both attached to him with buddy lines.

None of them, including the "supervising" adult, had enough free attention left to see me and my student as we passed each other. They literally didn't see us even though we passed within an arm's length of them.

A little further up we met another pair of divers, this time a young woman and (I guess) her father. Again we passed by without the supervising adult seeing us. The young woman did see us and I waved to her and her "supervisor" saw my hand moving and grabbed it firmly. I thought he was greeting me at first but soon realised that he thought it was HER hand he grabbed and he wouldn't let go.... LOL. In the end his *daughter* had to make him attent to the fact that it was not *her* hand he was grabbing....LOL

I found that very amusing but at the same time..... these are the "adults" who are out there supervising JOW divers.....

I would think that it would be a good idea to have the JOW divers retake a long scuba course at some point. I don't believe they fully understand the implications of depth, time and decompression although it is possible that they pick this up over time.

Richard

In my experience young divers, even ones 10 or 11 years old, learn how to dive without too much difficulty. They aren't full of fear like a lot of adults are and from what I've seen most kids this age who want to learn diving take to diving like fish to water.

But where they *do* have trouble is with the theory. I once spent a couple of hours explaining to a young student why a boat floats and paperclip sinks. She hadn't had any of this stuff in school yet and didn't have the lateral thinking capacity to put it together. If you wanted to re-test them on something as they get older, for me, that would be the theory.

R..

 

[rstofer]

In my experience young divers, even ones 10 or 11 years old, learn how to dive without too much difficulty. They aren't full of fear like a lot of adults are and from what I've seen most kids this age who want to learn diving take to diving like fish to water.

But where they *do* have trouble is with the theory. I once spent a couple of hours explaining to a young student why a boat floats and paperclip sinks. She hadn't had any of this stuff in school yet and didn't have the lateral thinking capacity to put it together. If you wanted to re-test them on something as they get older, for me, that would be the theory.

R..

Exactly! They don't have enough science by the 5th grade to really comprehend the details. Oh, there are probably many exceptions but, on average, they're a little light in the math/science department. Then again, so are many adults! They learn just enough and retain it just long enough to complete the course.

How many 'average' adult divers can still do dive tables? From my rough sampling - exactly none!

I really admire the university programs and the LA county program. Very long programs with a lot of theory and lecture coupled with a lot of hours in the pool and ocean. I didn't take such a program but I hope that my grandson will. I'm working on it...

Richard

 

[jtpwils]

My 12 year old daughter and I are doing our discover scuba class tomorrow and plan on doing our open water class together soon after. I have no reservations about her learning to dive, she is very smart, detail oriented and follows instruction well. Certainly she will be a much safer diver than I would have been at 12, or even 16 for that matter.

 

[jtpwils]

The above responses came in while I was interupted during the typing of my response.

It's a good point about the blind watching the blind. Certainly she will be just as competent (or incompetent) as I when we start. I also think that the idea of having an adult leading the young isn't so much as having a diver with better dive skills along as much as it is in having a diver with better judgement along. At least that's the way I would interpret the rule. It's like my point above when I referred to myself as a younger boy. Participating in unsafe activities like BB gun fights, motocrossing though the woods, skiing unmarked territory, bumper skitching etc. were de rigueur in my youth.

We do both have the advantage of my being an engineer and understanding the physics and her being my daughter and getting many sceince and physics lessons outside of school.

 

[rstofer]

Congratulations on getting your daughter started. You will both have a great time, I am sure.

I encouraged my son-in-law to take AOW and Rescue as soon as possible so that he was a more capable diver and a better buddy for my grandson. I would make the same recommendation for you; the Rescue course is a really worthwhile program.

As an engineer, you may be amazed at what is left out of OW training. Almost everything necessary for real skills development is put off until AOW or later. I particularly dislike the trend to move away from dive tables to computers and calculators. There's something about using tables that forges the relationship between depth, time and decompression. It's lost in the electronic age.

BTW, your daughter is old enough to take Junior Advanced Open Water and Jr Rescue and, in fact, can progress through certain specialties all the way up to Jr Master Scuba Diver. Assuming PADI... Kids Junior Scuba Diving Open Water, Rescue and Master Diver Courses - PADI Scuba Diving Training Organization I highly recommend the advanced training.

The more training, the more supervised dives, the better.

Richard

 

[Diver0001]

Almost everything necessary for real skills development is put off until AOW or later.

As a scuba instructor I'd like to know how you come to this conclusion. I certainly don't. On the contrary. I think there are only two scuba courses where you learn much about diving..... OW and Rescue.

Pray tell. I'd like to hear your opinion on this.

R..