Just an FYI for those considering advanced training with me this season.

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Jim just listed publicly what most instructors save for initial pre-class meetings. If an instructor dis allows a bit of your kit and can not tell you why, and or demonstrate why, you have chosen a poor instructor. Once at the advanced training level, you choose the instructor because you believe in the instructors/agencys training philosophy and standards. It is NOT one instructor fits all.

I have shadowed many tech classes in water, and drank a fair amount of barley pops while the punters are getting a talking too. In my kneck of the ocean the punters get told why their gear choice is a poor one. If it is not a safety risk, they are allowed to continue in water untill the instructor demonstrates or causes a failure of execution related to the poor choice. At that point in the dive te punter is thumbed out of the water. It prolongs the training prompting further dives that other punters completed on any given day.
YMMV
Eric
 
There are a number of reasons I have the requirements for my con ed courses that I do. These are just the gear guidelines:wink:.

I began to develop my pre course requirements soon after becoming a YMCA Instructor and subsequently SEI when the Y program closed.

During that process I also took some training through NAUI for Intro to Tech and Helitrox.

It was not long after that an event happened that generated a lot of posts on this board ( A Death in Grand Cayman) and was also the impetus for my "Who is Responsible" article that is a sticky in the new divers forum.

That event resulted in my first set of AOW students who traveled from North Carolina for a tailored advanced class that would give them the knowledge, skills, and hopefully ability to judge the suitability of a dive for themselves and not have to depend on DM or Guide to plan it for them. It turned out that the Y program guidelines we had kind of been using for SEI while we developed and updated things were pretty lacking as far as an Advanced Course was concerned. At least to my way of thinking.

What was not lacking were the standards that said SEI Instructors not only could and were encouraged to add to their courses to meet the needs of their students, but were in fact required to do so. While I did take that as far as I could and even had some go rounds with SEI HQ on some of my additions, after explaining them and the reasons for them plus the demands of my students, they were all approved. When the new Advanced Level Class materials and standards were being finalized I was one of the editors and had some things inserted that I felt were important. As a result when we get a student for Advanced Training they must have the rescue skills that SEI teaches all OW divers. That can be met by including them in the course or through a remediation workshop type session to give them the panicked diver at the surface, non responsive diver from depth, supporting a diver at the surface, and rescue tow while stripping gear.

But back to why I do what I do. I don't take just anyone for Advanced Level classes. I never wanted to teach a class that was just about giving someone a taste or tour of "advanced dives". Especially when it results in them getting a card that, in some areas, gives them carte blanche access to dives they have no business doing without new skills and knowledge.

AOW divers are allowed to do dives like the Spiegel Grove while never having been taught proper gas management, how to shoot a bag from depth, how to calculate emergency deco on the fly for going over the NDL's (SEI OW class on that one), and to use that knowledge in combination with gas management to see that doing that dive on an al80 is not a good idea if they plan to spend any time deeper than the top of the superstructure. They have no rescue skills. Were not taught to shoot a bag to aid in an ascent should they get blown off the wreck.

Some can't even stay in trim and manage their buoyancy effectively and they are still allowed on dives like that only because of a piece of plastic. I made the decision that I was going to provide as much NEW knowledge and as many NEW skills as I could so they could do these dives safely and well informed as to the real risks of doing them.

In order to do that I had to approach writing my course as I would a technical diving course. As a result I don't get a lot of students willing to take the class. But the ones that do are those who want the skills and knowledge in the manner that I teach them. I don't care about numbers. What I care about are safe, informed, skilled, knowledgeable, competent, and capable divers. Ones that as NAUI, SDI, and SEI say are those who right after class I would allow my kids to dive with on those types of dives with me not there. That I would feel ok diving with knowing that if I had a problem they could assist me.

As such I have my own standards that students must meet before they get a card. If they get all the skills down pat, ace the knowledge portions, but start to exhibit a disregard for safe practices and standards or demonstrate bad judgment - they don't get a card. But they know that up front. It is clearly spelled out in my learning agreement.

Note that in those requirements I did not say that students must only own their own gear. I said they must own or provide it. They can rent it. I can arrange rentals through a couple shops. But I normally do not rent gear. I see that as part of teaching them to assume responsibility for themselves in that they need to plan how they are going to get their gear. I'm not going to do it for them. As well as not making it necessary for me to have many sets of gear just hanging around gathering dust when I don't have students. This also gives them a chance to think about what they are going to use. Left to me they would only be in BPW's with long hose set ups if I they rented from me.


Take a look at what setups I allow. How many other shops and instructors will let students do AOW in doubles or sidemount if they have the gear or want to rent it to use? Show up in a fenzy and double hose and demonstrate you can do all the required skills including slinging a stage bottle, buddy breathing, and do horizontal air shares and ascents? No problem.

Just don't bring a spare air or expect to use an AIR II type device without also using a std octo. You need to be able to do 100 ft horizontal swims side by side, with one diver maskless. Unless you have a longer octo it is not going to be easy. Or to do an air share ascent from 90 ft horizontal and in trim, arrive at 50ft, and recover the stage bottles we have dropped and deploy them while still sharing air. An AIR II is going to complicate that. A 40 inch octo is the minimum.

I know my classes are not for everyone. Anyone who feels they are over the top is free to go elsewhere. But they are my classes. Not the agency's. It is my name on their card so my standards are what take precedence.
 
I don't take just anyone for Advanced Level classes.

I made the decision that I was going to provide as much NEW knowledge and as many NEW skills as I could so they could do these dives safely and well informed as to the real risks of doing them.

Note that in those requirements I did not say that students must only own their own gear. I said they must own or provide it.

I know my classes are not for everyone. Anyone who feels they are over the top is free to go elsewhere. But they are my classes. Not the agency's. It is my name on their card so my standards are what take precedence.

Well, you have your (good) reasons for doing so and accept that those who turn away are probably not the type of students you'd want anyway, so fair play to you. :)
 
From my perspective, not that it matters...

The requirement to own or provide a lot of the ancillary gear (i.e. reels, spools, dSMBs, etc.) seems like it does present a problem. There is a lot of variance in the details and finish of a lot of this type of gear (side handle vs top handle reel, spool types, open or closed bottom dSMB...), that can only be really shown by an experienced instructor. My intro instructor showed me the subtle differences between this gear, pros and cons, and let me try out different gear. While I had already decided on doubles, had I not I would have had the chance to try out different sets and see the advantages of different setups while getting some in-water instruction. I still like my steels better, but I understand the advantages of twin 80s after I got to dive a set.

The lessons I learned are reasons why I made some gear choices the way I did. I decided I liked the performance of a closed circuit dSMB, that I didn't see an advantage to a SS spool, and that I liked a side handle reel. Had I not been exposed to the differences in gear during my instruction, or been forced to bring all my own gear with me, I would have likely bought different gear later, wasting my scuba budget on excess gear instead of more training, trips, air fills, and gear I did need. The money I saved will on getting the right gear the first time will buy my first canister light. And I owe buying the right gear to not being required to bring ALL my gear with me for class. I was encouraged to wait, get the lesson, try out different equipment, and buy from there.

Granted, its the small stuff, and I showed up with all my basic gear (including my own tanks), but getting to try the gear made me more comfortable with spending my money, lets me know I'll be familiar with the gear when I'm in the water (because I got to try it out...), and saved me money in the long run.

Just another view on the situation. Hopefully, thats something a prospective student could work out with you when scheduling classes.
 
.... he didn't say you had to own it.... just make sure you had a form of in it the class...and even said he could assist you in other sources. Though not through Jim, I had the similar expectation in a NAUI MSD in regard to having the equipment appropriate for the dives. Rental was a great option as it too allowed for an evaluation with minimal financial impact, and also provided a multitude of gear that wouldn't be known if it was just the instructor's. The different gear was discussed and evaluated in the classroom as well as in the skills portion.

Putting it in writing also begins the process before the formal class begins. I'll wager much that Jim would openly discuss equipment selection with you before the class......

My hat is off to Jim for caring. Wish he was more local for my skills development.
 
I wish my LDS required students beytond Open Water to furnish their own equipment ( except for tanks and weights, whihc have plenty of ). Equipment ownership demonstrates a commitment to diving beyond the casual, and people with their own gear are more likely to be active divers than those who do not own their own. One of my big frustrations is an advanced open water student who does not have their own compass. Finally, this season, it is required that they have their own compass. I guess that's a start.
DivemasterDennis
 
I would have to guess that with the new PADI guidelines at least, even OW students are going to be required by many shops and instructors to own or purchase an smb and reel or spool for checkouts. While some may feel it optional for quarry diving, owning an smb and small spool for anyone diving in the ocean, river, or even large lake would seem like simple common sense. During my own OW training it was stressed that a signal tube as it was referred to was in the same area as a mask and fins when it came to having one.
There are a myriad of reels and spools. All will work to one degree or another. Some much better than others. So while I do require the student to "provide" their own, I have them available. To rent and for sale. What I find unusual is how many shops don't. Especially higher quality ones. It's just another reason the student needs to do some independent research. Before I take a cent they get the entire class outline. Hopefully well in advance and they take the time to read and study it. That way I can make recommendations. They can also be referred to other sources for gear that meets their needs, wants, interests, and budget.
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