airraider1
Guest
Chien,
I agree completely. You just don't need a PHD to have some fun and be safe with scuba.
I agree completely. You just don't need a PHD to have some fun and be safe with scuba.
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
airraider1:I couldn't agree more about bouyancy and trim. My point is merely that it takes some practice. Do I really need 10-12 dives to practice this simple skill with an instructor before I get certified? I'll ask again. Did you have all the skills you advocate for passing your OW class when you were certified? If not, was it really that important?
Sure it would have been great to be proficient at EVERYTHING when I first got certified. The fact that I wasn't (I doubt you were either) didn't make me unsafe. I am sure I will never be the diver you are but I'm just not as serious about it as you. SAFETY IS SERIOUS and diving is fun. You can be safe and have fun with scuba long before you could pass your OW certification.
airraider1:"Not so hot bouyancy" and you were lucky you didn't go straight to the bottom?
That sounds like completely negative bouyancy to me. If that was the level of your bouyancy control after being certified you are right that's a huge problem.
As far as the other stories you must be right about a lot of instructors not being competent. If you panic just because you don't have something to hang onto and you are breathing and wearing a bc you've got problems. Perfect neutral bouyancy no (which is what I thought you meant originally). Not having any control of your bouyancy whatsoever you're exactly right. Shouldn't be certified. The point of my post is that yes BASIC skills are important to safety.
Night diving, dry suit, navigation skills that can be taught and learned later.
Genesis:I was all over the place. Most new divers are. Why? They're not taught trim at all and very little emphasis is placed on buoyancy control. You do your skills on your knees, you do ascents/decents vertically. How are you supposed to develop buoyancy control and trim UNLESS you go quiescent in the water and actually DO IT? You can't.
samsp:The course outlined in this thread is a great course, its a thourough course and is probably what is needed for a Real open water certification. But you also have to look at economics. What PADI has done (for better or worse is debatable) is created an OW certification that is sufficient to get people into the water and diving. The problem though is that at the end, most students probably have sufficient knowlege to be able to go down safely on dives with an instructor/Dive master. If however there are problems, they are not going to have the experience/knowlege to solve them. I don't think its sufficient to be able to walk into a dive shop, buy all the equipment, get some tanks filled and drop to 60'.
I think we need the courses that are the current OW standard, as they provide a basic set of skills, within an attainable time/budget. You can go on a weeks vacation, spend 4 days of it taking the course and get a diving experience. That is what is really needed to know if you like diving / can handle it / want to do more.
What needs to change is the expectation as to what you can do with the certification you have recieved. I think the basic OW (as its currently taught/specified) should not be considered sufficient to go off diving with a (similarly trained) buddy. There should be more restructions as to diving with somebody better trained, either as a buddy or as a group, say six max, with an instructor. This would then meet the needs of resort divers who want to be able to dive on their vacations without having to go through the time in the classroom each vacation.
So that would mean that there would need to be more rigerous standards for "unsupervised" divers. The course outlined in this thread would meet that need. Its kind of what the AOW should be. The AOW may be that, but wasn't where I was taught. It sounds like this is somewhat happening in that some boats are requiring AOW/Nitrox to go diving. It could be policed that way, and also by the filling centers requiring more certification to get a tank filled.
Another requirement could be to have a temperature aspect to the certification. If you certify in warm water, the C card would specify that, and you would again have restrictions based on that. A new cert could be gained by taking a course in the appropriate waters, this could be offered by the LDS for somebody who learned in warm waters. This would be similar to driving licenses in the UK, if you take the test in an automatic, you license is endorsed as such and its illegal to drive a stick (manual transmission).
I think this scheme would work for both the resorts and the LDS. The resorts could get people diving, and have something to show for it, but it would also not be giving away the keys to the castle. The LDS that offers a longer, more thorough course can grant the higher certification. They can also do it in stages so that customers are not put off by sticker/commitment cost. It would also mean that instructors would have additional customers for supervised dives. Divers who want to learn more would have a path to follow, and get some good education/experience. The additional training could cover more theory as well, and therefore more class time - for example how to plan dives, how a reg works etc. The existing referral mechanism could be extended for this kind of course, so resort divers who live in colder areas could do the bookwork with the LDS and the dives in the Bahamas, and have the warm water cert. If they then want to dive locally, they could take the cold water conversion.
The only problem would be how to introduce this into the existing mix. One way would be to grandfather in a test for the new Advanced certification that could be taken by existing divers to prove their attainment of that level. The new level could be introduced, and divers given a year to take the test before the new restrictions apply.