Lionfish/DM's don't care!

[1KWIK_69]

I think I did understand... I'm just saying that the presence of lionfish in places other than reefs is something you should care about (if you care that lionfish are on the reefs), because those remote lionfish are going to breed, and create a constant supply of additional lionfish for the reefs where you don't want them.

Turning a blind eye to them, in my opinion, is more or less the same as saying you don't care about the swamp full of mosquitos behind the house, so long as we keep swatting the ones in our yard.

I never said I was turning a blind eye. I meant that there is absolutely no way we can capture or kill all the lionfish in the open sea, so we're destined to have an inexhaustable supply of them, but we can still do a lot to continually keep them off the reefs. I guess they're kind of like herpes! Once the Atlantic caught them, it was stuck with them forever. All we can do is treat the symptoms.

 

[geokr]

While I have no doubt a suitable trap could be designed, the thing that makes crab/fish traps effective is the bait. Baiting lionfish traps would require killing large quantities of the species that the lionfish like to eat.... Sort of contra-indicated, no?

Another thought I just had is that a possible solution could be, brace yourselves; grow more lionfish. Create genetically modified fish that would be less voracious eaters and/or more prone to cannibalism or have shorter lifespans intermixing with the current populations. A calmer, gentler lionfish. Screw the mousetrap, we have the technology to Build a Better Mouse.

A venomless lionfish would be just another pretty fish.

Hmmm....

 

[1KWIK_69]

A venomless lionfish would be just another pretty fish.

Hmmm....

Except they'd still have to eat! :shocked2:

 

[ocbeachbum]

No worries 1KWIK69. What are the dimensions of an adult lionfish? If the goal is to trap large numbers in a single "box", the box's dimensions might be such that it cannot be deployed without considering potential damage to the reef. (I'm envisioning the crab pots on Deadliest Catch) If, on the other hand, a trap designed for a single fish, (like a section of pvc with lionfish-grabbers in it) was deployed in large numbers, the job becomes very labor intensive to check/clear them. Not a problem for heavily dived areas, but re-baiting or resetting the traps is a daily chore anyway and you might as well just give DMs spears. If on the other other hand, the trap kills the fish, does that put off other fish that might have otherwise entered it? Someone could do a masters thesis on just this trap problem.

 

[geokr]

Except they'd still have to eat! :shocked2:

But....they'd be equally prey! That would make them fair game for the bigger fish and then the numbers would drop.

 

[geokr]

Someone could do a masters thesis on just this trap problem.

I think the thesis' conclusion would be "Screw it - just spear 'em"

 

[Hutchel]

Interesting discussion - a couple of observations having dived with these NASTY fish on the wrecks off of North Carolina (the wrecks we were on were 95-140' deep). When they first showed up the local dive industry in NC tried to kill them as they encountered them on the wrecks. There was no where near enough hunters to stay ahead of the Lion-Fish breading. There were no tree huggers on the wrecks in NC - spear guns, knives etc everything was used. Didn't do any good.

I distinctly remember taking the DAN Hazardous Marine life course from my LDS here in Northern VA that regularly dives NC - Lion Fish figured prominently in the discussion. It won't be too long before the treating the lion fish with more respect than anything else swiming in the water in Cozumel becomes part of the pre-dive brief.

I agree the fish are pretty to look at - the adults get pretty big - 24" or so across including the fins. They generally just hang around - at least on the wrecks where we saw them - and there were LOTS of them - not many other species were present BTW. The danger is when you accidently bump into one because they just hang there. The comment that was made about the effects of bumping into one was that they didn't care how much training you had - the pain will likely result in a yell or curse sufficiently uncontrolled as to loose your regulator. The venom won't kill you but the pain and panic might very well at depth.

Just my 2 cents - unfortunately this Genie is out of the bottle and human kind probably doesn't have the resources to put it back. We now have to move to risk management.

I will get to see just how bad it is in a week or so on my annual trip. I'll post a report when i get back.

Lee

 

[K_girl]

The trap and bait - remember the NOAA study said that predators of lionfish are other lionfish! So if the groupers are rarely eating the lionfish, as the study also suggests, and it has no other predators why not use the lionfish as bait against the lionfish? If other species are not willing to enter the trap to eat a lionfish, I think this makes the trap idea a little more plausible. So one lionfish is trapped and becomes weak and another lionfish says, "hmmm... looks like an easy, tasty meal, think I'll go for it." Then hey, that lionfish becomes bait for the next. Wonder if there is anything left of a lionfish when another lionfish eats it, but if there is nothing left - these traps could go on without maintenance for quite some time.

Here is yet another idea. I don't know if you remember the stories years ago about the threat of killer bees coming up through Mexico into the U.S. Scientists were able to produce a sterile male killer bee to mate with the queens. So the bees were released and set-up their little nests did their thing, and the reproduction of killer bees were significantly reduced. I haven't heard that much about the killer bee threat in years.

 

[alohagal]

The trap and bait - remember the NOAA study said that predators of lionfish are other lionfish! So if the groupers are rarely eating the lionfish, as the study also suggests, and it has no other predators why not use the lionfish as bait against the lionfish? If other species are not willing to enter the trap to eat a lionfish, I think this makes the trap idea a little more plausible. So one lionfish is trapped and becomes weak and another lionfish says, "hmmm... looks like an easy, tasty meal, think I'll go for it." Then hey, that lionfish becomes bait for the next. Wonder if there is anything left of a lionfish when another lionfish eats it, but if there is nothing left - these traps could go on without maintenance for quite some time.

Here is yet another idea. I don't know if you remember the stories years ago about the threat of killer bees coming up through Mexico into the U.S. Scientists were able to produce a sterile male killer bee to mate with the queens. So the bees were released and set-up their little nests did their thing, and the reproduction of killer bees were significantly reduced. I haven't heard that much about the killer bee threat in years.

Intriguing ideas for sure. Hunting seems like it is barely going to make a dent, I am sure there are marine biologists eagerly working on some type of genetic engineering, predator controls, trapping, and the like as people have suggested here to help stave off a non-indigenous species in non-indigenous waters. They have to be.

Gosh, on the whale shark snorkel, so many of those whale sharks had tags on them. I got pictures of them. So, there are people busy doing their field work.
I am sure there must be lionfish experts out there. I know the Marine park in Cozumel wanted them captured and turned in for their studies. They are trying to figure out where they originated from.

In the meantime...the rest of us can do our part! Capturing/killing/eating lionfish who are alien in these warm waters.

 

[geokr]

There was no where near enough hunters to stay ahead of the Lion-Fish breading. There were no tree huggers on the wrecks in NC - spear guns, knives etc everything was used. Didn't do any good. Lee

Good on ya for doing what you could. But wrecks provide thousands of places where they can hide. The same amount of area on a reef would have far less fish and they would all be mostly exposed. Very easy to spear.

Oh, and the fact that you didn't see many other species ought to be a wake up call.