Logged dives that "count"

[Dok]

Go with your conscience, lives are at stake. 'nuff said? If you are not ready, dive some more. Are you in a hurry?

 

[TMHeimer]

This comes up often. For PADI DM course you need 40 logged dives to start the course. For these courses that require a set number of dives, who knows what constitutes a dive that "counts". I've heard 15 feet for 20 minutes. Or 20 feet for 20 minutes. Or a certain SI in between 2 dives. Or solo dives do/don't count. I am not seeking opinions on what dives one thinks count, and not what dives you would include in your log-- ei. "I log a 5 minute dive if there was an equipment problem I had to solve because that's important". Is anything written down anywhere from any of the agencies that is official? Or is it just a vague guidline for an instructor to see that you actually have dived a lot? I know that once in a while, PADI is a bit vague.........

It's just a question of a technicality, nothing more. Bill answered it perfectly.

 

[Teller]

This maybe a bit off topic and it may just be me but I hate when people try to judge experience off of number of logged dives. We all know people who log eveytime they put their head under the water. Saying a person needs 40 dives to start a DM class is just wrong. You cant judge my experience based on a number. I tell people if you want to know how experienced a diver is then you have to dive with them. In the water is where the truth comes out.

 

[k ellis]

You have to look at it like this here. When we go to school to learn there are those who skip classes because they learn at an exceptional pace. Then there are those who take a little more time and have to attend special classes (Not trying to pun anyone or anything just being honest.) So when we see a student who is in 12th grade for example we have an expectation that they can do things like math and algebra, English, Grammar. As you can even see sometimes on the board people who graduated classes often have grammar issues.

So to the point you cant look at someone and say oh you have so much experience in the water and are qualified to lead. Some people may be exceptional after as little as 20 dives. Others may not be good divers after even 500 dives. It all depends on the person.

I agree that the best way to evaluate someone is to dive with them in non stressful situations. Of course people will put on their best to impress an evaluator but when they are just out having fun you can really see what kind of a diver they are!

 

[TMHeimer]

This maybe a bit off topic and it may just be me but I hate when people try to judge experience off of number of logged dives. We all know people who log eveytime they put their head under the water. Saying a person needs 40 dives to start a DM class is just wrong. You cant judge my experience based on a number. I tell people if you want to know how experienced a diver is then you have to dive with them. In the water is where the truth comes out.

Yes, agree completely. This has been much discussed. One person's 40 dives worth of experience can be vastly different than another's. Regardless, I think that in the vast majority of cases 40 is probably way too few. I know it would have been WAY too few for me. When I took Rescue with 26, I could've used a few more to get the most out of the course. Now there isn't even the 20 logged dives required as back then. But I guess PADI has to decide on a number. I believe some shops sort of admit people as DMCs because one of the instructors recommends it. Perhaps other shops don't, so they go on the required 40 logged dives (assuming no one from the shop dives with them to check them out, as you suggest). Here is where my question of technicality MAY come into play. I would think if there was a lot of variety in depth, locales, boat, shore, night, etc. it would encourage a shop to admit someone as a DMC. If it's a matter of 40 dives no deeper than 40 feet with some being 10 minutes, maybe not. Then of course, someone usually asks how valid is anything if people can simply fake a log book. I have always wondered what would be the reason for doing that.

 

[Bob DBF]

It sounds to me that you need 40 logged dives and it is up to the instructor to decide how many he will determine as acceptable. If he only accepts 30, you have some more diving to do. Having seen some of this in real life, how much help the instructor needs may color his acceptable standards.



Bob
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I may be old, but I’m not dead yet.

 

[k ellis]

. Then of course, someone usually asks how valid is anything if people can simply fake a log book. I have always wondered what would be the reason for doing that.

Prestige and bragging rights. No one likes to be the low man on the totum pole so they want to be macho. Sad thing is as they really do achieve a large number of dives they realize what all of us do. They dont impress anyone and in fact many divers stopped logging so long ago they have no idea how many they would have now if they continued to log them.

 

[RonFrank]

Maybe PADI is the standard, but IMO they have been somewhat poor in ensuring their standard means putting out quality divers as long as I have been diving. A dude that was in my OW class completed his DM training when I was doing AOW. This was after he had been diving 3 months in exactly one location, the BH. I asked for an air check and he turned my air off! LOL! He did not know right-e tight-e / lefty Lucy I guess. Fortunately the individuals that I know who are Instructors are fine individuals whom have been teaching for decades, but I am sure experience varies. I am not clear why so many instructors are as good as they are, obviously they are dedicated. I bet the newbies get an education from the veterans in a shop when they start instructing.

 

[Culcuhain]

As a guideline for me, 20' for 20m open water, no pool. Just a guideline.
If the object of the dive is a search and recovery of an object and it is in 8' of water and it takes 12m. It will get logged. Swimming around the local quarry having a good time, 20', 20m... just my guideline.

 

[spectrum]

IMO the best perspective is that your log is your personal journal so I log anytime I go UW with scuba. I'll log a pool dive to capture the experience but I do not increment my dive count on those occasions. If I had a similar reason to get wet in OW I would do the same.

On the very rare occasion that your log may get interrogated the reader is entitled to disallow any dives that not meet an established requirement. For that reason I would not filter what goes into my log. Overall you are better off with a complete record. Also, if you are trying to hit a number to qualify for something having a few extra in the book never hurts.

The notion of padding the log to look "macho" is a curious one. I was much happier to have veterans comment that I dive like I had a lot more experience than my dive count. In the end performance speaks much more than any log. I have no doubt that many instructors will l forgive the lack of a few dives when true competence is demonstrated but a fewer number will turn an incompetent student away if they have the count in the log. Nothing in scuba is black and white so it's pointless to have a log speak to every scenario with face value.