WOW, I wonder if OP has ever looked into the statistics on driving a car? 
Main causes of scuba diving accidents?
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dburg30
Contributor
The title of this thread, not sure if it was made by the OP or a mod though, since it was a moved thread... is
"Main causes of scuba diving accidents?"
I will answer that for you. The MAIN cause of most scuba accidents, is diver error. I know CamG said that also, but that is the main cause of accidents.
ie: forgetting to turn on air, not having reg in mouth when entering water, not keeping an eye on air supply underwarer and running out, going too deep and not doing proper safety procedures, ascending too fast , diving in conditions the diver isnt trained in, etc etc. Those are some of the things that are beat into your head over, and over, and over, and over during training / certification, but those are some of the biggest causes of accidents. BUT that can translate to driving a car. People are told not to speed, people are told not to drive a certain way in bad conditions, people get impatient and pass improperly, people drink and drive, people are told to focus on driving, not putting on makeup, not eating, not texting, not looking at the pretty house or the deer in the field, maybe keep an eye on the road in front of you, not the field to your extreme left. All of those are caused by 'driver error'. Does that mean driving should be outlawed?
And, no I'm not going to sit here and say equipment doesnt fail. It can and does, but it can and does on a car too, but again, are we going to stop driving?
"Main causes of scuba diving accidents?"
I will answer that for you. The MAIN cause of most scuba accidents, is diver error. I know CamG said that also, but that is the main cause of accidents.
ie: forgetting to turn on air, not having reg in mouth when entering water, not keeping an eye on air supply underwarer and running out, going too deep and not doing proper safety procedures, ascending too fast , diving in conditions the diver isnt trained in, etc etc. Those are some of the things that are beat into your head over, and over, and over, and over during training / certification, but those are some of the biggest causes of accidents. BUT that can translate to driving a car. People are told not to speed, people are told not to drive a certain way in bad conditions, people get impatient and pass improperly, people drink and drive, people are told to focus on driving, not putting on makeup, not eating, not texting, not looking at the pretty house or the deer in the field, maybe keep an eye on the road in front of you, not the field to your extreme left. All of those are caused by 'driver error'. Does that mean driving should be outlawed?
And, no I'm not going to sit here and say equipment doesnt fail. It can and does, but it can and does on a car too, but again, are we going to stop driving?
ScubaSteve
Wow.....what a DB
dburg30
Contributor
OH, I agree totally. I feel much safer diving and having an equipment failure, then driving and having an equipment failure. To people that have never been diving before, or more precisely been TRAINED in diving, that would seem like a foreign concept to them I'm sure.
Based on my limited experience and extensive reading, I'd say carelessness and pre-existing health issues. Equipment failure isn't that common, though free-flows definitely happen and people lose masks often enough. Serious issues (other than free-flow) just aren't that common and a free-flow is relatively easy to deal with with the help of your buddy, though it will increase your pulse if it's unexpected. (I've had a couple minor free-flows upon first descent and they definitely make a lot of noise and scare you but aren't hard to handle if your buddy is nearby or you're not easily panicked.)
Garth
Contributor
beasleym
Contributor
I think people are confusing cause and effect, using training in a simplistic manner without really defining it, and clearly defining what the risks are so that they can be compared.
Taking the last first, Einstein said something to the effect that if you can't measure it then it isn't science. Talking about scuba as a sport (which is what I think we're talking about) is too simplistic. Comparing it to football isn't the same. Scuba is dangerous because it's done in an alien environment. It's more like sky diving - you can't simply pull over like you're in a car and take a timeout. BTW - people who say they would never scuba dive are fun to play with; ask them if they would ever like to walk in space - most say yes but when asked about the difference with diving they're hard pressed to define what is more dangerous. The point is that they are alien environments and even simple mistakes can kill you; walking in space only seems less dangerous. Knowing the statistics about how many people participate vs. how many are injured or die is something I would love to see but haven't found anything yet. From direct and indirect experience, flying, skydiving, drag racing, and similar sports are ones where simple errors can have catastrophic results. Horse riding, biking, football, baseball, etc can kill you, but they generally not the same as far as fatalities go.
Most scuba accidents are caused, like flying, by operator error. Even those that are trained and experienced can make errors or get caught up in them. Most fatal errors are usually a combination of errors (e.g., running out gas while trying to find out why the landing gear didn't go down) - that' why being rigid in not cutting corners is important. Not deferring to the expert or accepting direction by someone that isn't following guidelines or asks you to something you aren't comfortable or trained for gets too many people on the wrong side of line. Training is more than just instruction. Continuous training and expanding your horizons is really important and practicing is just as important. When's the last time you practiced a free flow or an emergency ascent? I make it a point of practicing at least one "emergency" every outing; last time was an emergency ascent from 90+ feet with a pony bottle; just because you carry a pony bottle doesn't mean extra safety, and doing it once isn't enough. So, to me training means that you continue to learn and train regularly. I too was a firefighter in my youth and ran into burning buildings. Training a practice were continuous on that job as well.
As to cause and effect, OOA isn't a cause of death. Not being vigilant is what causes this situation. Training plays a part as does regular practice and working with your buddy. I like working with a buddy where we trade off leading and following. This leads to sharing the workload, requires both to know where you are, and with every change of lead we jointly check air. That's the planning ahead of time example.
And, as I said before, it isn't usually one thing that gets you, it two or more. Don't take shortcuts, plan ahead of time, and be a Boy Scout (be prepared). Bottom line - it's a question of risk vs. benefit - if the risk of scuba diving isn't worth the benefit, if planning and training aren't worth it, then don't scuba dive!
Taking the last first, Einstein said something to the effect that if you can't measure it then it isn't science. Talking about scuba as a sport (which is what I think we're talking about) is too simplistic. Comparing it to football isn't the same. Scuba is dangerous because it's done in an alien environment. It's more like sky diving - you can't simply pull over like you're in a car and take a timeout. BTW - people who say they would never scuba dive are fun to play with; ask them if they would ever like to walk in space - most say yes but when asked about the difference with diving they're hard pressed to define what is more dangerous. The point is that they are alien environments and even simple mistakes can kill you; walking in space only seems less dangerous. Knowing the statistics about how many people participate vs. how many are injured or die is something I would love to see but haven't found anything yet. From direct and indirect experience, flying, skydiving, drag racing, and similar sports are ones where simple errors can have catastrophic results. Horse riding, biking, football, baseball, etc can kill you, but they generally not the same as far as fatalities go.
Most scuba accidents are caused, like flying, by operator error. Even those that are trained and experienced can make errors or get caught up in them. Most fatal errors are usually a combination of errors (e.g., running out gas while trying to find out why the landing gear didn't go down) - that' why being rigid in not cutting corners is important. Not deferring to the expert or accepting direction by someone that isn't following guidelines or asks you to something you aren't comfortable or trained for gets too many people on the wrong side of line. Training is more than just instruction. Continuous training and expanding your horizons is really important and practicing is just as important. When's the last time you practiced a free flow or an emergency ascent? I make it a point of practicing at least one "emergency" every outing; last time was an emergency ascent from 90+ feet with a pony bottle; just because you carry a pony bottle doesn't mean extra safety, and doing it once isn't enough. So, to me training means that you continue to learn and train regularly. I too was a firefighter in my youth and ran into burning buildings. Training a practice were continuous on that job as well.
As to cause and effect, OOA isn't a cause of death. Not being vigilant is what causes this situation. Training plays a part as does regular practice and working with your buddy. I like working with a buddy where we trade off leading and following. This leads to sharing the workload, requires both to know where you are, and with every change of lead we jointly check air. That's the planning ahead of time example.
And, as I said before, it isn't usually one thing that gets you, it two or more. Don't take shortcuts, plan ahead of time, and be a Boy Scout (be prepared). Bottom line - it's a question of risk vs. benefit - if the risk of scuba diving isn't worth the benefit, if planning and training aren't worth it, then don't scuba dive!
We used to have a much older fellow who often rode with us; the father of one of my friends. He used to laugh at us when we had to pull off to the side of a road to do a quick repair on one of the Indians or Harleys.
He just loved to point out that when he was younger, pulling his Huey over in Korea to correct equipment issues was NOT an option.
There are times that equipment problems are definitely more problematic! :shocked2:
20-30-40-50 ft down on a rec dive, most equipment failures would usually have less on an impact than in some more tech situations, where quick access to air is not even remorely an option.
Five pages of posts on cause of scuba deaths and not a single person has blamed split fins, snorkels, "that" training organization, not DIR'ing or poodle jackets? Weird, could have sworn I was on ScubaBoard!
A lot of people have some good thoughts here on the whys and hows of the issue -- if the OP is asking, as some have implied, to gauge risk before trying it though I'd strongly suggest a discover scuba experience or similar in a controlled environment and judge for yourself. Cheap way to find out if the sport's really for you and will at least give you a basic (very, very basic) frame of reference for the discussion.
In my limited personal experience with dive incidents but somewhat less limited reading and talking to people about them, I have yet to see more than a tiny percentage of scuba accidents that weren't avoidable or didn't mostly come down to underestimating the difficulty of a specific dive (whether that is current, visibility, whatever) or overestimating your own personal abilities.
A lot of people have some good thoughts here on the whys and hows of the issue -- if the OP is asking, as some have implied, to gauge risk before trying it though I'd strongly suggest a discover scuba experience or similar in a controlled environment and judge for yourself. Cheap way to find out if the sport's really for you and will at least give you a basic (very, very basic) frame of reference for the discussion.
In my limited personal experience with dive incidents but somewhat less limited reading and talking to people about them, I have yet to see more than a tiny percentage of scuba accidents that weren't avoidable or didn't mostly come down to underestimating the difficulty of a specific dive (whether that is current, visibility, whatever) or overestimating your own personal abilities.
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