Main causes of scuba diving accidents?

[rovic]

"I'm not sure how you can say scuba diving isn't dangerous. The fact that we have an accident forum where I can't remember a two week stretch without a death should prove that incorrect."

....exactly, i also don't understand why Devon consider scuba as "not dangerous"... he always presume that i am a troll,...Devon,, i'd say it again and again..i am not a troll. this is just my style of knowing and understanding a new sport.,, you are simply telling me that i am new and i need to just stay in the "introduction" forum and should not participate in the discussions of veteran divers which to me is very wrong,,i am a member of 24 different forums,6 of them am a moderator. and i have never encounter such an attitude, being a moderator,you need to encourage newbies like me to participate in discussions rather than preventing them from learning. ..i was just amazed and surprised,on all 8 reasons that i posted, none of them passed your standard...(?????),,majority of them in fact does happen in real life, and i don't have to be a diver to know that... since day one you have been contradicting my statements., i am eager to understand the pros and cons/advantage and disadvantages/risks etc of scuba diving,and you are not helping me to attain my goal....i have never knew of any forum that prevents a newbie to participate in the discussions of the pros...only here,which i don't understand why(??????) , if you don't consider scuba diving a dangerous sport,might as well abolish the "Accident forum",it defeats it's purpose....forum is an open forum...one has all the right to air his opinions,as long as it's within the bounds of the forum rules. you have to remember that even the MOST knowledgeable diver can be killed while diving.10/20/30/40years experience doesn't matter....dumb newbies like me deserve some respect too...IMO

I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them.

 

[AfterDark]

I'm not sure how you can say scuba diving isn't dangerous. The fact that we have an accident forum where I can't remember a two week stretch without a death should prove that incorrect.

I think the use of the word very is in dispute, as it should be. Scuba diving isn't very dangerous but, like most everything in life worth doing it has risks.

 

[AfterDark]

"I'm not sure how you can say scuba diving isn't dangerous. The fact that we have an accident forum where I can't remember a two week stretch without a death should prove that incorrect."

....exactly, i also don't understand why Devon consider scuba as "not dangerous"... he always presume that i am a troll,...Devon,, i'd say it again and again..i am not a troll. this is just my style of knowing and understanding a new sport.,, you are simply telling me that i am new and i need to just stay in the "introduction" forum and should not participate in the discussions of veteran divers which to me is very wrong,,i am a member of 24 different forums,6 of them am a moderator. and i have never encounter such an attitude, being a moderator,you need to encourage newbies like me to participate in discussions rather than preventing them from learning. ..i was just amazed and surprised,on all 8 reasons that i posted, none of them passed your standard...(?????),,majority of them in fact does happen in real life, and i don't have to be a diver to know that... since day one you have been contradicting my statements., i am eager to understand the pros and cons/advantage and disadvantages/risks etc of scuba diving,and you are not helping me to attain my goal....i have never knew of any forum that prevents a newbie to participate in the discussions of the pros...only here,which i don't understand why(??????) , if you don't consider scuba diving a dangerous sport,might as well abolish the "Accident forum",it defeats it's purpose....forum is an open forum...one has all the right to air his opinions,as long as it's within the bounds of the forum rules. you have to remember that even the MOST knowledgeable diver can be killed while diving.10/20/30/40years experience doesn't matter....dumb newbies like me deserve some respect too...IMO

You sound like you're having second thoughts about diving. That's not a bad thing. The ocean is an environment hostile to human life thus whenever a human enters it there are risks, be it in a boat, swimming at the beach, snorkeling in shallow water or diving the Doria it’s just a matter of scale. The risks are part of the allure at least for some of us, in this case my guess is that it wasn’t the wreck that caused the death but equipment related, just my guess.
We all need to weight the dangers and decide for ourselves what is and isn’t acceptable.
I hope you take whatever action you need to be comfortable in the water and enjoy diving

 

[Centrals]

"I'm not sure how you can say scuba diving isn't dangerous. The fact that we have an accident forum where I can't remember a two week stretch without a death should prove that incorrect."

....exactly, i also don't understand why Devon consider scuba as "not dangerous"... he always presume that i am a troll,...Devon,, i'd say it again and again..i am not a troll. this is just my style of knowing and understanding a new sport.,, you are simply telling me that i am new and i need to just stay in the "introduction" forum and should not participate in the discussions of veteran divers which to me is very wrong,,i am a member of 24 different forums,6 of them am a moderator. and i have never encounter such an attitude, being a moderator,you need to encourage newbies like me to participate in discussions rather than preventing them from learning. ..i was just amazed and surprised,on all 8 reasons that i posted, none of them passed your standard...(?????),,majority of them in fact does happen in real life, and i don't have to be a diver to know that... since day one you have been contradicting my statements., i am eager to understand the pros and cons/advantage and disadvantages/risks etc of scuba diving,and you are not helping me to attain my goal....i have never knew of any forum that prevents a newbie to participate in the discussions of the pros...only here,which i don't understand why(??????) , if you don't consider scuba diving a dangerous sport,might as well abolish the "Accident forum",it defeats it's purpose....forum is an open forum...one has all the right to air his opinions,as long as it's within the bounds of the forum rules. you have to remember that even the MOST knowledgeable diver can be killed while diving.10/20/30/40years experience doesn't matter....dumb newbies like me deserve some respect too...IMO

I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them.

Why don't you start a new post on " Is scuba diving dangerous".
I gave up football(soccer) many yrs ago because of fittness.
I gave up badminton because of back injury.
I gave up skiing because of cost, travelling, coldness etc etc.
I gave up back-packing because my body could not handle the style of travelling.
I gave up high altitude tracking(>4,500m) because of fittness.
Scuba diving(recreational and tech) is the only sport that I can still actively participate.
Dangerous? How would you quantify it?

 

[Thalassamania]

"I'm not sure how you can say scuba diving isn't dangerous. The fact that we have an accident forum where I can't remember a two week stretch without a death should prove that incorrect."

OK, I'll take a crack at this. There are some hundred or so fatalities per year, that averages two per week, so you are correct, I too can't remember a two week stretch without a death. But that is just the denominator, without a numerator it is meaningless for any analysis of actual risk. If everyone in the US went diving at least once a week, that would be rather irrelevant, however, if the all the divers in the world lived in the same small town the size of the one I live in, that would be horrendous. OK so far?

....exactly, i also don't understand why Devon consider scuba as "not dangerous"... he always presume that i am a troll,...Devon,, i'd say it again and again..i am not a troll. this is just my style of knowing and understanding a new sport.,, you are simply telling me that i am new and i need to just stay in the "introduction" forum and should not participate in the discussions of veteran divers which to me is very wrong,,

I am not presuming that you are a troll, if I had the presumption I'd either ignore you or blow you out or the water. The point is that the questions you are asking are those of, excuse me for saying so, one who is not well informed. That is not, in and of itself a problem, but that is one of the reasons that there are forums designed for different levels. This permits the more experienced folk who might want to interact on their level to do so.

i am a member of 24 different forums,6 of them am a moderator. and i have never encounter such an attitude, being a moderator,

That is a logical fallacy known as an appeal to authority. It adds nothing to your argument.

you need to encourage newbies like me to participate in discussions rather than preventing them from learning. ..i was just amazed and surprised,on all 8 reasons that i posted, none of them passed your standard...(?????),,majority of them in fact does happen in real life, and i don't have to be a diver to know that...

You posted and I replied. You do not seem to want to do the work that is required or take the sageful and polite advice I offered ... so I will try again. Here is our interchange:

the question arises,since this sport is considered VERY dangerous,why are people still undulge themselves to it??

there are several reasons why diving fails and cause DEATH
1) inadequate diver's technical know how
2) Natural/ catastrophic
3) diver's health condition(lung air load limit/too high pressure cause lung to collapse)
4) panic (uncontrollable)
5) over confident divers.(you know what i mean)
6) negligence
7) lack of proper/reliable diving equipment/ gadget
8) intentional/suicide (very rare,,,but it happens)
9) supernatural causes

feel free to add if i miss anything...

Go to RUBICON and read all the National Underwater Accident Data Center Reports (NUADC). Then read all the DAN reports. Then, come back and share.

Now let's examine your list, keep in mind that I am drawing on my personal investigation of more than 2K diving fatalities as well as more than fifty years and 15,000 dives experience (see, I'm not immune to an appeal to authority either) :

there are several reasons why diving fails and cause DEATH

1) inadequate diver's technical know how - if by this you mean things like poor line work or silting up a cave or wreck and loosing the guide line, I'd agree, that happens.

2) Natural/ catastrophic - can happen, rather rare, I can think of one incident that stands out.

3) diver's health condition(lung air load limit/too high pressure cause lung to collapse) - negative thoracic pressure peneumothorax - don't know of any fatalities.

4) panic (uncontrollable) - this is an odd one, I don't believe in uncontrollable panic because I've taught too many people how to control it, and (in any case) panic does not set in out of the blue, it is a natural response to a set of stimuli that you have not been trained to properly handle. Panic is a training, practice and experience problem.

5) over confident divers.(you know what i mean) - actually I don't. Over confidence is not what kills people thought it may get them into situations that they are not prepared to properly handle. Like panic, over confidence is is a training, practice and experience problem.

6) negligence - this is legal term, negligence by itself does not kill, but it can create situations where some is dies.

7) lack of proper/reliable diving equipment/ gadget - with the possible exception of a few rebreather accidents this is a non issue.

8) intentional/suicide (very rare,,,but it happens) - passing small, but it does occur. I recall a case of a chap who brought a revolver underwater in a plastic bag and shot himself in the head.

9) supernatural causes - none known.

So what do we come down to from your list? A few suicides and some cases of failure in training, practice or experience. I think that frankly is where the real issue. For example, take the scientific diving community. We has a perfect safety record stretching back to 1952. No one who trained in what we refer to as a Scripps Model Training Program has ever died diving. NO ONE. Why? I submit that first of all diving is not very dangerous and that second of all, those dangers that do exist are rather easily solved by adequate training, practice and experience.

since day one you have been contradicting my statements., i am eager to understand the pros and cons/advantage and disadvantages/risks etc of scuba diving,and you are not helping me to attain my goal....

I hope that I have been able to assist you to attain your goal, I still recommend going to RUBICON and downloading the reports I mentioned.

i have never knew of any forum that prevents a newbie to participate in the discussions of the pros...only here,which i don't understand why(??????) ,

Perhaps it is because the newbies oft lack the insight to understand that answers that they receive.

if you don't consider scuba diving a dangerous sport,might as well abolish the "Accident forum",it defeats it's purpose....

There is a difference between a dangerous activity and a potentially dangerous activity, and I'd list diving in the latter category since, as I noted earlier, we have learned how to eliminate the dangers.

forum is an open forum...one has all the right to air his opinions,as long as it's within the bounds of the forum rules.

Quite right, just as the participants on the board have the same right to tell you that you have no idea of what you are talking about and that, perhaps, you need to back up and learn some basics before you try to run with the big dogs.

you have to remember that even the MOST knowledgeable diver can be killed while diving.10/20/30/40years experience doesn't matter

CAN ... sure, but rather unlikely. I've been diving since 1956, I've survived my share of tight spots, each has taught me how to avoid ever finding myself in a similar circumstance. If I am no deeper than 190 and I have no ceiling I know that the chances of my being injured or killed are passing small. If I am deeper than 190, or I venture into an area where I have an actual or physiological ceiling, I know what extra precautions I and my team have to put into place to keep the risk about the same. Diving is not dangerous ... but some divers are.

....dumb newbies like me deserve some respect too...IMO

People deserve respect until they lose it ... and then it is often difficult to rebuild.

 

[DevonDiver]

....exactly, i also don't understand why Devon consider scuba as "not dangerous"

That's probably because you've never done an actual scuba dive, or completed even an entry-level scuba training course.

Such an experience would probably been seen as a rather modest prerequisite before attempting to debate on relative safety and technical merits of the activity.

I am not presuming that you are a troll, if I had the presumption I'd either ignore you or blow you out or the water.

How? He's never been in the water!

I don't presume he's a troll either - or I wouldn't have spent any of my valuable time replying to him on this, or other, threads.

I don't understand his morbid fascination with lurking in the A&I area though... or his absolute insistence on posting questions in these accident analysis threads, that are really very basic scuba questions that belong in the New Divers section. Such behaviour is both disruptive and contrary to the forum rules.

 

[nolatom]

Leading cause I believe is out of air. Many reasons for out of air, but most often it's poor planning and inattention to air consumption during the dive.

Second I would bet is cardiac event. often this is on the surface, since that's where we tend to exert ourselves more.

Third, probably DCS or embolism from too-rapid ascent from significant depth/dive time at depth.

The rest probably well down the list? Equipment failure is pretty rare, except on TV shows. These are my guesses, I haven't looked at the numbers.

Diving's dangerous if you don't follow the rules, and relatively safe if you do. Any sport that puts humans in a "not natural for humans' environment is going to be like this.

 

[DevonDiver]

Leading cause I believe is out of air. Many reasons for out of air, but most often it's poor planning and inattention to air consumption during the dive.

OOA is often the trigger, but in many instances the diver actually does reach the surface. Sometimes an embolism gets them from closed airway on ascent. Other times the sink and drown because of a failure to attain proper buoyancy upon surfacing. The number of incident reports that cite the victim as having 'reached the surface before sinking and being lost' is staggering.

Either of those outcomes really boils down to a failure to apply entry-level training. Most likely, because of panic.

Poor planning and inattention to air consumption during a dive must contribute to many OOA incidents. However, for a recreational diver an OOA situation should, quite simply, not be a life-or-death scenario. The buddy system should ensure this. A range of emergency drills taught in entry-level courses also should ensure this. Again, the issue of failing to apply entry-level training raises its head.

The sad fact is that human error and/or negligence is the root of many recreational diving fatalities. As it is with driving accidents, industrial accidents etc etc.

 

[PatW]

Well, I do not know what you mean by "very dangerous".

Scuba diving does have its risks. But I believe that there is another much more common activity that is more dangerous than diving.......... driving a motorized vehicle.

I was at a dive resort earlier this year. They said that their number one source of injuries was ear damage from people descending or ascending too quickly. Their number two source of injury was getting in or off of the boat. Decompression injuries were far less numerous than either of the above.

Diving fatalities do happen. I will not detail the sources of this.

But if a person is reasonably fit, reasonably well trained and reasonably careful, diving is a pretty safe endeavor. As long as I dive within my competency limits and keep my gear maintained, I am pretty safe. When I go out and drive my car, I am at the mercy of any knuckle head who is talking on their cell phone whilst driving.

 

[Akimbo]

…
9) supernatural causes
I am not aware of any scuba diving incident reports that cite werewolves, vampires, ghosts, aliens or mummies as a contributing cause of death...

True but most saturation diving systems, dive boats, camera housings, and outboard motors I have ever seen had their share of gremlins!

Unfortunately, far too many accident reports may as well have been attributed to gremlins since we know little more than they were recovered with empty bottles and the autopsy says they drown. It is way too easy to write accidents off to gas management alone.