Managing A Picked-up Buddy

[FPDocMatt]

Be nice and ASK them how they want to do the dive, then adapt. "How close do you want to stick together?" "When do you want to surface?" "What do you want to look for?" IOW, make the dive about them and see how much they get into it.

This is an excellent approach! It's what I'll use.

I learn from everyone I dive with. Sometimes I learn things to emulate while other times I learn things to avoid.

Oh I like this. So you can even learn from dufuses (doofuses? dufi? doofi?).

 

[DiveNav]

....What is SDI, for that matter? .

Scuba Diving International

 

[Peter Guy]

While I don't do that many "insta-buddy" dives while on vacation (at home I'm doing them all the time, but we call that teaching!), I've had some good, some bad but no ugly experiences.

It is my experience that most "tropical vacation dives" are NOT "buddy dives" but, to the contrary, "gaggle dives." I'll try to buddy up with someone on the boat and I'll try to be a buddy to that diver -- but the diver needs to want to be a buddy to me for that to work. Unlike when I'm teaching, I don't feel any great responsibility to the diver (NOTE -- I'm saying a "great" responsibility -- I will try to be a "responsible" buddy as it is my role to be responsible, but if the guy leaves me, oh well). BUT, I do make sure that I'm either in the "gaggle" so that if things do go sideways, I do have someone close to me OR the DM and I have reached an understanding that we'll be together (this is often at the end of the dive when most of the other divers have ascended and then the DM and I will just go have a dive).

No, I do not have any redundancy on me since having a pony or slinging a bottle just isn't that convenient or available on the typical vacation outing.

What is your risk tolerance? Mine is higher than my wife's.

YMMV

 

[The Chairman]

This is an excellent approach! It's what I'll use.Oh I like this.

Glad to help!

So you can even learn from dufuses (doofuses? dufi? doofi?).

I only call my best friend "dufus", so that should tell you something.

Not all techniques are "bad". Some are simply better for me than others. When I see a diver handle a situation, I try to understand not only what they did, but why they did it. I then make a mental note of that and replay it several times in my head and I might even discuss it here on ScubaBoard. I will then try to visualize myself doing the same thing and quite often, I may actually try it in situ. When I was starting to teach, I had a student lose their fin in Alexander Springs. We could not see it anywhere and that's 300+ ft of vis in there. Someone had to have snitched it. Well, even though we covered this in class, she had no clue what to do. So, I took off my fin and signaled for the whole class to do the same. We finished the class (about 150 yds) on one fin. During that time, I looked to see who succeeded and who did not do so well. To my surprise, the best looking student was doing the frog kick with only one fin and going straight. I had never considered this before and now it's easy.

BTW, as we walked out of the spring, we found the fin. A kid was playing with it in the shallows! The entire class was going on and on about how fun the exercise was and how they knew they could cope with that.

In any event, you are bound to repeat the mistakes you don't learn from. The best part of being sentient is the ability to partially predict the future (cause and effect) and to make adjustments for the best possible outcome. While I have never ever lost a fin, I know that I might. I know what won't work as well as what will. Cool beans.

 

[Darnold9999]

Great advice here.

However one point that has not really been made is your comment re needing to go to a chamber if you have to CESA from 80 feet. Indicates to me that you might be over fearful. While a CESA is something to avoid if possible, if done correctly it defines recreational diving. By definition a recreational dive is one where you can safely ascend directly to the surface if something goes wrong. You will not die and will have a very low risk of DCS. Fearing the ascent and not going to the surface if it is the best option is far more likely to kill you IMHO. Try it from 60 feet stopping at 15 feet a few times near the beginning of a dive, over time start deeper until you are no longer comfortable and you will soon see that it is not something to fear. Be cautious about doing it, but nothing to fear.

On the instabuddy front I have not had the same great buddies that others have found. This is my issue more than theirs, as I am a photographer and dive really really really slowly. I found that if I wanted to stay close to a buddy I had to swim much faster than I wanted to and miss half the stuff I wanted to see. I now dive solo and don't worry about it.

 

[ColoDale]

I always ask my instabuddy how we want to do things including where my octo is, basic signals, how I/they dive, etc. Not really a matter of managing them. If I tried that I think I would come off as condescending and put them off.

I was in the Bahamas and was paired up with a new diver. We were told on the boat we would moor and to be back on the boat at a certain time - shallow wreck ~35 fsw. He hadn't done this kind of diving so I suggested a square pattern and on the end of the third leg we would be at the wreck to poke around. This guy stayed 1-2 ft from my right shoulder the entire dive. That's what he wants, fine. He didn't say he would be that close and a little unnerving to have someone that close but ok.

On the other hand I have sat across from a new instabuddy and asked what kind of buddies we would be - arms reach, 10-20 feet or same ocean. The answer I got back was same ocean. Well so be it. Then I have to think about what I am going to do for myself in the event of a problem. Good training for me to make me think about what could happen and what I would do.

I have a friend who dives like I do and he is currently looking into solo diving training and gear. I am not quite there yet.

I have to admit that when I have my camera, I am basically a solo diver anyway and probably a bad buddy. If the instabuddy does not have a camera or doesn't dive slow then the dive might not be much fun for them. After finding this out after talking to me and it's not what they want then I/we can look for other buddies.

 

[FPDocMatt]

... your comment re needing to go to a chamber if you have to CESA from 80 feet. Indicates to me that you might be over fearful. While a CESA is something to avoid if possible, if done correctly it defines recreational diving. By definition a recreational dive is one where you can safely ascend directly to the surface if something goes wrong. You will not die and will have a very low risk of DCS.

Okay, this is a point on which I'm confused. Of the following, which is correct? In no-decompression diving (which is really no-stop diving):

1. You will probably not get the bends if you ascend at a rate under 60 feet per minute.
2. You will probably not get the bends no matter how fast you ascend.

I thought #1 was correct, but you seem to be asserting #2.

 

[lv2dive]

Okay, this is a point on which I'm confused. Of the following, which is correct? In no-decompression diving (which is really no-stop diving):

1. You will probably not get the bends if you ascend at a rate under 60 feet per minute.
2. You will probably not get the bends no matter how fast you ascend.

I thought #1 was correct, but you seem to be asserting #2.

I'm going to oversimplify here but: The larger concern with a fast ascent on recreational dive is an arterial gas embolism (AGE) vs. decompression sickness DCS, or "the bends." The "bends" are more typically associated inadequate decompression ("going into deco" and not offgassing appropriately).

So the answer to the specific question posed above, is, I suppose, #2... but I think what was meant by the question was:

In no-decompression diving (which is really no-stop diving):

• You will probably not get an AGE if you ascend at a rate under 60 feet per minute.
• You will probably not get an AGE no matter how fast you ascend.

In which case, I would assert that #1 is true, #2 is not true, but it does not necessarily follow that if you ascend at, say, 75 feet per minute you will necessarily get an AGE, either.

The bigger question is, why worry so much about exact emergency ascent rates? Darnold9999 is correct in that by the definition of most major OW agencies, recreational diving allows for a direct ascent to the surface with no stops. That doesn't mean swim up like crazy holding one's breath, though... as I'm sure you know .

OTOH, this is just an academic discussion for a lot of people. I don't practice CESAs bc I can't foresee an instance where I would be in that situation. I'll be tracking my gas (and keeping planned and appropriate reserve for my buddy, so that we can both make a safe controlled ascent sharing gas). If I don't trust my buddy* enough to do the same, I'm calling the dive.



*regular teammate, instabuddy, whatever


NOTE: DCI (Decompression Illness) is the umbrella term used to encompass DCS and AGE.

 

[Darnold9999]

Okay, this is a point on which I'm confused. Of the following, which is correct? In no-decompression diving (which is really no-stop diving):

1. You will probably not get the bends if you ascend at a rate under 60 feet per minute.
2. You will probably not get the bends no matter how fast you ascend.

I thought #1 was correct, but you seem to be asserting #2.

Actually I am not asserting either. Having learned to dive and ascend at 60 feet per minute I am very confident that in an emergency ascent at about 60 feet per minute I will not get DCS. The C in CESA stands for "controlled" - not as fast as possible. Even if I were to exceed 60 feet per minute the liklihood of DCS is still low - but if I were to do a CESA at any rate I probably would grab the O2 and breathe from it for a period of time as a prophylactic.


Note that from 80 feet you will need to hold your breath for 80 seconds to ascend at 60 feet per second. Not actually as hard as you might think. Even with empty lungs at 80 feet you will have lots of air and will need to breathe out on the way up. Controlling the urge to breath is the most difficult part of the ascent. You don't actually need to breathe for quite a while.


And as a final comment #2 is probably correct as well. Don't know what the maximum ascent rate is but water is pretty hard to move fast in. Given the choice between drowning and DCS I will take the hit and ascend as fast as I need to.

Take all of this with the caveat that solving the problem some other way is better but if CESA is what you have then do it at a rate that gets you to the surface before you have to breathe water.

 

[fjpatrum]

Reading on SB and in Deco For Divers about what can go wrong on a dive, and how important it is to do things a certain way to avoid disaster and be prepared for disaster, I'm now getting concerned about the fact that I'm going to be going on dive trips on a regular basis without my wife. I'm basically planning to dive with strangers.

The thing is, I'm going to want my buddy to stay within a few feet of me (like, 3 to 5 feet, right?), to always be aware of me and whether I'm having difficulties, to not dive sawtooth patterns, to plan the dive beforehand with me and stick to the plan, etc.

After the few dives I've done with DM's, and seeing how they have typically been 10-20 feet away from me frequently, and sometimes have lost sight of me even, I bet expecting a total stranger who isn't a DM to stick close-by and follow a plan is-- Well, I just bet it isn't always going to happen.

Of course sticking close isn't as much a concern at shallow depth (such as on a shore dive in the 20-foot range) as at depth. But if I have a regulator malfunction at 80-100 feet (like that poster who suddenly found himself inhaling water instead of air), and my buddy isn't basically within reach, then I'm going to have to do a CESA. And then I may as well just get on the phone immediately to EMS to find the nearest hyperbaric chamber.

As the saying goes, it takes two to tango. Have a good pre-dive discussion about your goals and your concerns. I've dived only with insta-buddies and with one exception, they were good buddies. The exception was a decent buddy but wanted to stay down once I said time to go up... plenty of gas, no emergency, but she was taking pictures and didn't adhere to my thumb. I wouldn't dive with her again, to be honest, though several folks on Scubaboard seem to respect her quite a bit. A couple others didn't stay within the 5 foot range but I'm not super concerned that they be that close to me. On one of those occasions, at least, I was equally at fault because I was taking pictures and didn't ask my buddy to stop.

Do a good buddy check and remember if you stay close to your buddy they can't stray from you. If you can't keep up with them, try to grab a fin and signal to slow down, and carry a slate so you can use written communication. If they can't keep up with you, remember to look around. I had a quarry buddy I picked up from Scubaboard who thought I was a speed demon when I was consciously trying to slow down, so good communication before, during, and post-dive is essential.

As for the "same ocean" buddies, I'm sure it happens but either I've been very lucky or it doesn't happen as often as Scubaboard makes it seem. I'm not sure which of those is the case yet. For me, I've found making a conscious effort to say "will you be my buddy" and doing a thorough pre-dive buddy check when others are ignoring them seems to get the point across very well. The details are where the more thorough verbal communication comes into play.