Managing A Picked-up Buddy

[dallaskincaid]

Unless specifically decided upon, in clear and warm waters (i.e.: tropical), this is not typically "the norm". There have been numerous discussions here on SB, with common themes being (if I remember correctly) 10-20 feet being not uncommon. Limited visibility is quite another story... Keep in mind, your diving should be within your plan, within your training, and within your "comfort zone".

It may also take more effort on your behalf to stick with your buddy rather than expect him to stick with you.... If it doesn't go well, DIVE OVER, and discuss, or get another buddy....

Remember, it is about self reliance.

I think the depth at which you are diving factors in as well. The distance I want between me and my buddy on a 25' reef dive is going to be a LOT different than the distance I want that person on a 100' wreck dive.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

Good point on the shallow reef diving.

I'm not going to be diving with any insta-buddies on a 100 ft. wreck dive.

-Mitch

 

[TSandM]

You know, I didn't think of that. I can always stay close to my buddy, don't have to rely on my buddy to stay close to me.

One of the most miserable dives I've ever done was just like that. I splashed with two instabuddies who were friends and regular divers together. I didn't know they had no interest in staying together; when the one on the rebreather disappeared into the murk (and you can't follow them, because they have no bubbles) I stuck to the other one like glue, because it had become instantly clear to me that it mattered not at all to him if he stayed with whoever he got in the water with. I saw nothing for the rest of the dive, because I didn't want to take my eyes off my buddy for fear he'd take off into the 10 foot viz and I'd never find him.

Matt, there are options. One is to try to interview your potential diving partners, to see if there is someone else on the boat who likes to dive as a buddy pair, instead of a same-ocean twosome. Another is to make it very clear before you dive what your needs are, and see if you can convince your instabuddy to honor them.

And, at the risk of sounding like a missionary, you can surround yourself with people who put diving as a team high on their list of priorities. I ended up where I am because I didn't LIKE diving as a casual pair. I wanted to dive with someone who was actively engaged in diving WITH me, whether that was in terms of enjoying what we saw, sharing the navigation, helping with issues, or whatever. I found a corner of the diving world where safety is first and foremost, and being a team comes close behind, and I've been very happy there.

 

[FPDocMatt]

I'm going to oversimplify here but: The larger concern with a fast ascent on recreational dive is an arterial gas embolism (AGE) vs. decompression sickness DCS, or "the bends." The "bends" are more typically associated inadequate decompression ("going into deco" and not offgassing appropriately).

As a beginner, I'm probably not supposed to disagree with a more experienced diver about such things, but I think I've read enough about these issues to be able to say confidently that ascending faster than 60 feet per minute (while exhaling) puts one at risk of the bends, not of arterial gas embolism. AGE is caused by a lung overexpansion injury, which is usually due to breath-holding.

The bigger question is, why worry so much about exact emergency ascent rates?

Because I might be in an emergency requiring an emergency ascent, of course. The situation posed is a first-stage regulator malfunction that results in one breathing in water instead of air, with no alternate air source at hand and one's buddy far away.

By the way, if such a think happened at 80 feet, and I were actually choking on the inhaled water, I'd probably have to do a buoyant emergency ascent. Which would put me at risk of the bends.

I just looked it up, and a CESA is properly done at a rate not to exceed 60 feet per minute. So with a properly performed CESA there is little if any risk of the bends.

 

[Darnold9999]

Just reread my previous post and missed something. Meant to say that when I learned to dive a 60 feet per minute ascent was the norm - which is why I am pretty sure that the risk for DCS at that ascent rate is very low and that I would feel pretty comfortable exceeding even that rate in an emergency.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

......

 

[Pullmyfinger]

I agree with TS&M on the team diving.

Finding like minded divers is hard to do unless you're in one of the areas where that type of training is found. I haven't been fortunate enough to be in one of the cool places.

At least with a team diving mindset...you always know what you're going to get in a dive buddy.

Yeah....I'm jealous.

-Mitch

 

[lv2dive]

As a beginner, I'm probably not supposed to disagree with a more experienced diver about such things, but I think I've read enough about these issues to be able to say confidently that ascending faster than 60 feet per minute (while exhaling) puts one at risk of the bends, not of arterial gas embolism. AGE is caused by a lung overexpansion injury, which is usually due to breath-holding.
...

I'm going to oversimplify here but: The larger concern with a fast ascent on recreational dive is an arterial gas embolism (AGE) vs. decompression sickness DCS, or "the bends." The "bends" are more typically associated inadequate decompression ("going into deco" and not offgassing appropriately).

You are more than welcome to disagree with me, hey, I'm learning all the time too, I don't get it right EVERY time .

In this case, however, I was VERY specific with my wording for a reason... and I stand by what I said. I didn't say it did NOT put you at greater risk of the bends, I said the larger concern was AGE and the increased risk of the bends is less of a concern. Which, in my experience, is the way it works out in the real world. To reiterate, I was making two points In regards to DCI:

FIRST: in fast ascents in recreational diving the larger concern is pulmonary barotrauma and AGE... not DCS or the bends.
SECOND: there's no magic ascent rate at which one will contract the bends... yes, should be safe under 60 ft/minute, and no, can't rocket to the surface, but there is gray area in between at which one may or may not necessarily get bent. (my example was 75 ft/minute).

Important to remember - you usually CAN fix bent (at least in most locations), it's my understanding AGE is harder (in many cases impossible) to fix, (so don't hold breath), and MUCH harder to fix drowned - so that gets back to my original point - prevention is the best cure - better not be in the position to begin with!!!




For DAN's view on the subject, see http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/medical/articles/article.asp?articleid=65
It's an old but good article, this thread made me look it up. One paragraph notes:

Who Gets DCI?Decompression illness affects scuba divers, aviators, astronauts and compressed-air workers. It occurs in approximately 1,000 U.S. scuba divers each year. Moreover, DCI hits randomly. The main risk factor for DCI is a reduction in ambient pressure, but there are other risk factors that will increase the chance of DCI occurring. These known risk factors are deep / long dives, cold water, hard exercise at depth, and rapid ascents.
Rapid ascents are closely linked to the risk of AGE. Other factors thought to increase the risk of DCI but for which evidence is not conclusive are obesity, dehydration, hard exercise immediately after surfacing, and pulmonary disease. In addition, there seem to be individual risk factors that have not yet been identified. This is why some divers seem to get DCI more frequently than others although they are following the same dive profile.[emphasis mine]

 

[The Chairman]

A tad bit of fear can be acceptable and learning is on going. There was a while I thought that bristle worms caused heart attacks. Why? I had witnessed two heart attacks that had been precipitated by divers holding them. Later I figured out it was anaphylactic shock. Did it really matter how I viewed these critters? Not really. They still hurt like crap if you pick one up. No, that's not first hand knowledge... my fear has kept me from getting hurt. Nothing wrong with a healthy dose of fear.

 

[billgraham]

I'm not an instructor and I rarely do "recreational" dives where I'd be paired up with another diver, but I often take people cave diving in back of my house in Florida who I've never dove with before and a few things I learned might be helpful here. First off, put the unknown diver in front where you can watch him/her closely and stay close behind. This way, you can see their trim and fin technique, and you can see how much attention they are paying to their instruments and where YOU are. If there's something to do at the beginning of the dive (like putting in a reel) let them do it and watch closely. At the first hint of something going wrong, signal the diver to stop, get face to face and try to communicate with them. Turn the dive at the first issue. Panicked divers want to bolt to the surface (or to the cave entrance) so be aware that's a probability. Asking a diver in that state if they are OK will get you a reflex OK which doesn't mean that they are really ok. If at all possible, get them to stay still for a couple of minutes (and I mean MINUTES) and get calmed down before you try to turn the dive. Otherwise, they'll bolt away from you (and help). That being said, it's almost impossible to hold on to someone who is panicked and dead set on getting to the surface. Buenos suerte!