Moving to Doubles

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I am curious as to why - not disagreeing or challenging, just interested in your thinking. Sidemount is a great way to add gas to extend bottom time within NDLs.

I think the benefits of sidemount are still not truly understood amongst the dive community. Unlike back-mount, sidemount is now formalized as a recreational diving course, that provides a wide spectrum of capability (a 'big' tool kit at their disposal) and also prepares the diver for subsequent transition into technical diving (can be undertaken using sidemount doubles, with many agencies). It's also cheaper to equip with sidemount... easier to transport... easier to rent tanks on holiday... provides capability benefits in overhead/confined spaces (wreck and cave)....and is a delight to use underwater.

I've dived back-mount doubles for years - I am (if you've not guessed) a total sidemount convert now - especially for recreational diving.

There may be genuine reasons for preferring back-mount, but lack of info about the alternatives should not be one of them. Here's a blog article (training notes) I wrote for my blog: Sidemount Diving Training NotesScuba Tech Philippines
 
Sure, lets have a more complex system for rec diving... sounds great.

The OP was considering back-mounted doubles for rec diving. In what way do you believe sidemount 'more complex' than back-mount?

There's a great many reasons why a recreational diver might legitimately opt for using two tanks (of equal capacity).
 
the switching, the "which hose to donate" problem, and the need for a difference BC are three that come to mind that dont exist in doubles diving.
 
I did love the way the backmounted doubles felt in the water on the one dive that I did in them. The walk to the beach was not real long, but I didn't find it that difficult to manage. However, it was entering a calm sand beach, not climbing over rocks in surf, which would probably have been a challenge.

There is a sidemount diver that I know that I am trying to cultivate into being a regular buddy. He loves his sidemount gear, and I can see alot of advantages too.

The truth is that I have not given up on the thought of advancing through the GUE curriculum, and they have not yet seen the light on the sidemount advantages. If and when I give up on that, I will reevaluate a number of things.

Its not my reason, but I have noticed that going back and forth between sidemounted tanks to keep them equal does take alot of thought. Also, it seems to me that the manifold is an improvement over independent doubles, because it give more alternatives to accessing gas in the event of a failure. No?
 
You're correct. There are failure modes in SM that deplete you of half your gas supply. While there are failures that could render the same result in BM, I've yet to hear of a single incident of this happening. Manifolds just don't fail. Regs, hoses, and fitting DO FAIL, otoh.
 
I don't imagine it's easy to travel from Israel to Egypt and back on a regular basis, which is a shame . . . because there IS a good GUE presence in Egypt.

Actually, its easy, I could just walk across at any of a few border crossings.

Unfortunatly, this is not a safe time for Israelis to be going into Egypt. There are some not nice people who are looking for Israelis to kidnap and trade for Palestinean terrorists. Something I really don't want to volunteer for.

If I really really wanted to go I would fly to Europe and then on a separate ticket and different passport fly to Egypt.

I've looked across the border many times. So close and yet so far.
 
the switching, the "which hose to donate" problem, and the need for a difference BC are three that come to mind that dont exist in doubles diving.

Are you actually trained/experienced with sidemount.... or just guessing?

Switching - a relatively simple skill, taught on the appropriate course. Certainly a lot easier to master than shut-down drills 'behind the head'. Divers using indie backmount have been cylinder balancing for decades. The only abilities required are: (1) Regulator remove and replace - an OW skill.... and (2) Situational Awareness of your gas contents - another OW skill.

Which hose to donate - the 'long hose', same as on back-mounted doubles.

The need for a different BCD - There are conversion adaptors that allow regular BP&W to be used for sidemount. If the diver is buying equipment for a transition into doubles anyway, then the cost of sidemount kit is substantially lower. Sidemount kits are available in configuration that match either 'hogarthian' or 'comfort/BCD style' harnesses, allowing easy transition of familiarity from existing kit into sidemount.

PADI released the recreational sidemount course recently - it covers all skills and drills needed to effectively dive with double tanks, but unlike back-mount, is applicable for divers with a much lower experience threshold.... it's even available as an AOW 'adventure dive' elective now. Prerequisite qualification for training is Open Water diver - just how 'complex' are you imagining that it is?!? :)

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Its not my reason, but I have noticed that going back and forth between sidemounted tanks to keep them equal does take alot of thought.

I'd use the term 'gas awareness'.... and it's something that any technical diver should possess. If a technical diver balked at the concept of having to balance two tanks, then they probably shouldn't be technical diving in the first instance.

Sidemount can (and is) taught to Open Water level divers. It's a new skill set, nothing more, nothing less... and one that's very easy to achieve.


Also, it seems to me that the manifold is an improvement over independent doubles, because it give more alternatives to accessing gas in the event of a failure. No?

Manifold - allows you to create true redundancy, in the event of otherwise catastrophic gas loss.

No-Manifold - provides you with true redundancy, in the event of otherwise catastrophic gas loss.

Gas Planning and Management - provides you with safety factors to account for regulator failure, regardless of configuration. How many 'options' do you need - you either have sufficient gas, or you do not. What matters if you 'lose' one tank, when the other has sufficient to get you back to the surface?

Access to gas through a 'failed' regulator - Sidemount provides access to tank valves, that is either impossible or severely difficult in back-mount. Most, if not all, regulator failures will result in free-flow. With back-mount, that means a shut-down... and reliance on the back-up regulator. Sidemount divers at tec level are taught to 'feather' a free-flowing regulator to access that gas, on demand. Access to gas is not lost, neither is access to the regulator. The diver can still share air, if required. In the worst case scenario, they can even swap regulators between tanks - something implausible for a back-mounted diver - again, this skill is taught on some sidemount courses. For recreational sidemount divers that is all hypothetical, as they'll have ample gas remaining for a direct ascent to the surface. Procedures may be different - but capability and safety remain equal.

You didn't read my blog article yet, did you? :)
 
What would be the advantage to SM vs a normal backmount single and a slung stage?
 
lel, ya, im just some joker with no clue about SM. Come on, guy.

switching DOES add complexity to the dives. You're kidding yourself if you think it doesn't. Simple OW skills? Sure. I guess you live in the perfect world. I live in the real world and recognize that switching back and forth between cylinders is unneeded complexity, esp if the dive doesn't require it. You're playing dress up.

You donate the long hose because its the one you're breathing. Do you have a long hose on both tanks? If not, which tank? Why? Lets play the game.

What you're suggesting is a lot lik using an 'adapter' to use doubles on a jacket BC. Suboptimal. But if that's how you roll... Also, you're accounting for 1 (one) failure mode for your reg. If you blow a hose (happens) or lose an oring (happens), you're SOL for that tank. With BM doubles, you aren't. Most common failures allow you access to all your gas. Plus, that whole 'feather the valve' thing is a tough nut to crack the second you need that hand on the line or you're on a scooter. Possible? Maybe. Easy? Doubtful.

PADI doesn't even teach gas management. What PADI does (or more often doesn't do) is hardly a justification for an unnecessarily complex method of taking extra gas with you. The PADI standard is notoriously low, and I'm mildly amused that you cite PADI making it an "adventure dive". I actually chuckled a little at that. I'm sure everyone will be real 'dialed in' with their SM goobery at the end of that.

SM can be done right, but lets call a spade a spade. Its more complex and most appropriate for a narrow range of dives.
 
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