Muscle memory does everyone automatically have it?

[Scuba_Jenny]

I was just wondering about this the other dive when after a couple years of carrying a camera, clipping it off on my right shoulder D ring after EVERY shot, how the heck did I manage to drop it and not miss it for a minute?

The second thought goes into training. I was taught to always take my weightbelt off between dives. You didn't want to create muscle memory, or better yet, I guess it would be learn to ignore the feeling of weight hanging off your hips while on a boat in the event you had to make a hasty exit off said boat.

 

[Altamira]

OK since I had time to read some of these posts now and weigh out their differences, I think I can deduce the following.

As far as muscle memory having NOTHING to do with the muscles, or not being a important component to the MM factor I believe is not adequate, because I believe this repetitive training has allowed the brain to coordinate this deeply ingrained motion and the muscles are mostly acting very quickly as a REFLEX type motion. This is means that the muscles do play an integral part in completing this type auto response or motion because of its reflex type memory.


This directly should address the concerns of those stating: Why should MM be beneficial what if something happens and you are using mm?

The brain I think is completely capable of having in grained task or repetitive training while at the same time is in control because the function of reading the surrounding is vital component and inherent of the brain it can determine what action to take at all times it is more of an automatic instinct in the brain and the MM is just one of many ingrained responses the brain can choose to activate at any given time and at any level. This would type switching is a natural activity of the brain and it adapts and copes with incoming changes constantly, it never stops learning how to be more effective or proficient at something and is always processing info on which action is best to take or in the case of mm to initiate.

Frank G
Z GEAR - Z Gear

Muscle memory, force of habit, repetitive practice and training, etc., can all be useful tools in making us more productive, efficient, and in some cases, more safe. However, these tools can lull us into a false sense of security in our skills, knowledge, and training/habits, especially if you add even minor distractions and stress. We should never lose sight of the fact that the brain is a fallable body organ, easily fooled at times, and over-reliance on our memory tools can lead to disasterous consequences. How else do you explain professional, extremely well trained, veteran pilots landing gear up, forgetting to set the flaps for takeoff, flying the aircraft into the ground due to optical illusions or forgetting something as simple as resetting the altimeter. And the list of potential mental screw ups is endless, not only for aviators, but for all occupations and hobbies. As divers, we too operate in a dangerous environment where even a minor brain output at the wrong time can kill you and others. Sometimes a "brain fart" will overule all the training, practice, muscle memory, and force of habit that we have worked so hard to perfect.

 

[FinnMom]

MM is a cool sounding buzzword, but a very apt description of how you can execute a skill with more relability & skill but less concious thought when it has been practiced.

Reminds me of Julie Andrews correcting an interviewer who said that a professional musician will practice a very difficult piece until they get it right. Andrews said no, a serious amateur might practice until they get it right; a professional practices until she cannot get it wrong.

 

[DaleC]

Lynne, you brought up the other half of the issue with your last post. Muscle memory (to use the common term) only really works to maximum advantage if you have standardized gear. If you do not have standardized gear it could work against you. Like clipping a camera off on the non-existent D ring. So the value of MM becomes more relevant the more standardized you keep your gear. I agree with that. It explains why, as someone who moves between several types of scuba units, I do not place as high a value on it. I have always known that I sacrifice narrow expertise for broad based knowledge and am happy with that. I would rather be able to dive many rigs to 75% than only one to 100%.

I think that is a pretty important caveat we should include in such conversations to help clarify POV's so thanks for pointing it out

 

[Z Gear]

Muscle memory, force of habit, repetitive practice and training, etc., can all be useful tools in making us more productive, efficient, and in some cases, more safe. However, these tools can lull us into a false sense of security in our skills, knowledge, and training/habits, especially if you add even minor distractions and stress. We should never lose sight of the fact that the brain is a fallable body organ, easily fooled at times, and over-reliance on our memory tools can lead to disasterous consequences. How else do you explain professional, extremely well trained, veteran pilots landing gear up, forgetting to set the flaps for takeoff, flying the aircraft into the ground due to optical illusions or forgetting something as simple as resetting the altimeter. And the list of potential mental screw ups is endless, not only for aviators, but for all occupations and hobbies. As divers, we too operate in a dangerous environment where even a minor brain output at the wrong time can kill you and others. Sometimes a "brain fart" will overule all the training, practice, muscle memory, and force of habit that we have worked so hard to perfect.

Good point.

 

[TMHeimer]

MM is a cool sounding buzzword, but a very apt description of how you can execute a skill with more relability & skill but less concious thought when it has been practiced.

Reminds me of Julie Andrews correcting an interviewer who said that a professional musician will practice a very difficult piece until they get it right. Andrews said no, a serious amateur might practice until they get it right; a professional practices until she cannot get it wrong.

Absolutely. A little different though for diving. If you know the piece of music that well the chance of being distracted while performing is pretty much nil (wish I were in that category). When I am gearing up to dive I prefer not to be holding a conversation. You don't "practise" gearing up, even as a new diver. Has anyone here NEVER forgotten to turn air on?

 

[redacted]

Good point.

A scuba example:

I had gotten so used to recharging my slung pony periodically during the dive that it just seemed to happen without thought. I had re-rigged my pony for some reason and when my right hand went to recharge the reg, it grabbed the yoke knob rather than the valve handle. There was very little pressure at the time so I just flooded the pony regulator. No real problem but it was the beginning of the end for that button SPG. Solution was to reposition the bands so the yoke knob was less accessible.

 

[PfcAJ]

A scuba example:

I had gotten so used to recharging my slung pony periodically during the dive that it just seemed to happen without thought. I had re-rigged my pony for some reason and when my right hand went to recharge the reg, it grabbed the yoke knob rather than the valve handle. There was very little pressure at the time so I just flooded the pony regulator. No real problem but it was the beginning of the end for that button SPG. Solution was to reposition the bands so the yoke knob was less accessible.

din valve

 

[DaleC]

Thinking of that Julie Andrews quote I believe professionals make mistakes just like everyone else. It's just that they can recover without a lot of outward appearance of error.

Brain farts happen all the time. When I was taking my fundies course we talked about doing a no mask swim drill, which most people know is being able to maintain trim and buoyancy if you happen to lose one. Your buddy is only there as a guide so you don't cork. Somehow, on the bottom, I turned logic upside down and thought we were doing a blind swim drill (don't ask me how I did that). As a result I took off my mask and squeezed my eyes closed (extra hard so the instructor would see I was not cheating) and let my teammate lead me around. Result: I went all over the place in the water column. The instructor probably thought "what the heck is this guy doing" while I was thinking "look how calm I am negotiating low/no vis conditions".

I laugh at it now but at the time it was pretty embarrassing

 

[cbm32]

This is a pretty good definition of "muscle memory":

Muscle memory has been used synonymously with motor learning, which is a form of procedural memory that involves consolidating a specific motor task into memory through repetition. When a movement is repeated over time, a long-term muscle memory is created for that task, eventually allowing it to be performed without conscious effort. This process decreases the need for attention and creates maximum efficiency within the motor and memory systems. Examples of muscle memory are found in many everyday activities that become automatic and improve with practice, such as riding a bicycle, typing on a keyboard, typing in a PIN, playing a musical instrument, or martial arts.^[1]


It is a term that I have used for years and years in coaching. It is of GREAT importance in the throws events in track and field and also in wrestling. Muscle memory is a big part of why I bought all my own gear as soon as I decided I was going to be diving more than just one short trip a year. Knowing where all of my dump valves are and how to dump my weights and where my octo is and things of that nature are important to me. If/when I have an emergence I want to be able to do what is necessary without thinking a lot about it or fumbling around trying to remember where my dump valve/octo/weight releast/ or anything else is at ....I want to go from recognizing the problem to having taken the appropriate steps just as quickly as possible. That means not having to do a lot of thinking about what the steps are or how to do them because I have practiced them and react by reaching for the right thing in the right place even before I realize I am doing it. Every second, or fraction of a second, saved in implementing the necessary steps make it more likely I will not suffer any injuries in an emergency situation.

Most that have done a LOT of catching things (usually baseballs or whatever) have had the experience of having something thrown at them and reacting to catch it even before they THINK about doing so. That is muscle memory. You SEE the object coming at you and react in the appropriate way without even thinking about it, sometimes even surprise you caught it.

So, everyone has the ability to put things into muscle memory. Some are better at it, or develop muscle memory faster than others, but we all have it to some degree.