My friend just got her OW and she's been diagnosed with DCS

[tholden1]

The OW and the dives were all with the same shop. The six dives included her checkout dives. Her buoyancy control wasn't that great since the dive shop gave her a BCD that was too big.

She went deeper than 60 feet because it was dive the wreck day for the rest of the people on the charter, she wanted to go and paid for it, and it allowed the instructor to sign off on both the deep dive and wreck dive portion of my AOW while still keeping us together for the dive.

I've been to 80 feet on swimthroughs in Cozumel before I got my AOW. The 60-foot liimit, from what I have seen, is a recommendation, not a die-hard rule that all shops follow.

I'd also like to know why she ever went deeper than 60 ft on any of her dives if your intial post is correct where you stated that

"I took my friend with me to Cancun to get her OW. We did six dives over the coarse of three days. Two were shallow at 30 feet, and the rest were between 50 and 80."

How was her buoyancy control and did you do the entire course there or just the dives? If the entire course was done there what was she told about her recommended limits as an OW diver and what her ascent rates should be? Was she able to control her ascents? What were the actual dive profiles with times at depth, times at safety stops if they were done, and total dive times with surface intervals? This info, at least for the checkout dives, should have been recorded in her logbook and signed by the instructor.

I'd also like to hear what DAN says and hope she recovers fully.

 

[DandyDon]

Thanks Tholden. Keep your DAN insurance and not the cheapest plan as the next one is only $10 higher and much better.

"She was fumbling with a camera and not paying attention." I shudder every time I see a newbie talking about dive cameras. A lot do but it's asking for trouble.

Glad she wasn't hurt worse. My home bud did an uncontrolled ascent on our first outing but didn't tell me for years that he hurt himself - sore for months. Hope she heals well.

 

[a22shady]

But, I'm hoping by not revealing her name, I can save her from any embarrasment nevertheless.

There is nothing to embarrased or asshamed about everyone makes mistakes and we all learn, Scuba is no different as long as we are able to learn and sharing your/her story could very well help yourself or someone else out.


I really hope your friend is ok, I have no Idea of Dive profile or Safety Stops. but OW Recreationsl Dive limit is 60' so technically all your dives should have been under 60. i know a lot of people go deeper and have nothing happen not saying by going pas this depth has anything to do with it either, But guidelines are there for your safety, and no one should go beyond there training.

 

[DandyDon]

Sounds good A22, but that 60 ft guideline is to make the agency lawyers happy. Instructors know that very few Ops in the Caribbean and Latin America region pay any attention to it and good Instructors teach to reality, not insurance & attorneys. Goes for Cancun & Cozumel training to be sure.

 

[boulderjohn]

I am certainly no doctor, but I do know that it is sometimes hard to tell the difference between DCS and a lung overexpansion injury. That is why the term DCI (decompression Illness) is often used, because it can apply to either.

The choking sensation can definitely be associated with lung overexpansion. The blotches can be as well, depending to some degree on where they are and what the are like.

Given your description of the dives, I would be much more inclined to think it is a lung overexpansion injury than DCS. Lung overexpansion injuries are associated with rapid ascents, usually with some amount of breath holding during the ascent. That is why you are told never to hold your breath in scuba.

If that is the case and she is relatively OK now, then she should be OK. Lung overexpansion injuries can be extremely serious, but the really serious ones present themselves as such very quickly, often within seconds of the ascent.

OF course, DAN knows a lot more about this than I do, and if they knew everything you told us here and did not mention this as a possibility, then they must have made a decision based on better knowledge.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

So the instructor took a diver with a poor fitting BC and buoyancy control issues on a deep wreck dive for no other reason than to keep you together. And she paid for it. In more ways than one it seems. Really tells me a great deal about that operation. and reminds me why I teach the way I do and have the performance requirements for certifying an ow diver that I do. It also tells me a great deal about a new "trained" diver that exercises that degree of poor judgment in ignoring the recommendations of every agency I'm aware of. This sounds harsh and I know it. But it is mild compared to what I would tell a student of mine if I found out they did this or allowed a new diver they were buddied with to be taken on that dive. A new ow diver taken on what was really a trust me dive. In the new diver forum there is a thread titled who is responsible. The reason for that thread was a trust me dive that killed a newly certed diver. sad to see that these dives are still putting new divers at risk and will continue to as long as the risks are ignored and there is money to be made.

 

[a22shady]

Sounds good A22, but that 60 ft guideline is to make the agency lawyers happy. Instructors know that very few Ops in the Caribbean and Latin America region pay any attention to it and good Instructors teach to reality, not insurance & attorneys. Goes for Cancun & Cozumel training to be sure.

Anyone that teaches to reality of taking newly certified (To become certified) divers below that mark I think should have there license removed. Maybe it is a cieling to make laywers happy, But the truth is it's to protect the newer students also. Some are not as good as others and learn slower. Peronally to me does not matter where you are the depth limits are there for your safety. Maybe I am wrong or foolish for sticking to the requiremnts. I know untill i was certified to go deeper I did not. I dove for a year before taking my AOW and I had about 35ish dives never went below 60'. Could I have sure, did I feel confident in myself/buddy and skills yes but decided to go the safer route. I am sure my Shop wouldnt have been too happy to find out one of there students were diving that way after spending the time with you. I agree with Jim.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

@tholden1: Wow. So your friend experienced an uncontrolled ascent (too fast maybe?). That's a critical piece of info that wasn't included in the original post.

I generally try to give the benefit of the doubt to the instructor, but:

• Conducting OW and AOW classes simultaneously with only one instructor really shouldn't be done. That's poor judgment (if not a violation of agency standards) since the OW diver on Class Dive #3 almost certainly requires more attention than a diver who is already fully certified.
• The instructor had no reservations letting an OW student mess around with an UW camera setup on Class Dive #3. That's task-loading that an OW student shouldn't have to deal with.
• After the unplanned (rapid?) ascent from approx. 50 fsw, the diver decided to re-descend and continue the dive. A more conservative approach could have been adopted here, monitoring her for symptoms of lung overexpansion injury and possibly restricting her from diving for the rest of the day. If the diver complained of anything remotely resembling DCI symptoms, then she should have been evaluated by a medical professional right away.

It's unfortunate that your friend ended up getting injured, but it sounds as though her symptoms have resolved on their own by now. That's good.

After your friend was OW certified (presumably after Dive #4), the decision to conduct a dive to 80fsw, a depth beyond her training and experience, was hers to make. I would think, though, that given the unplanned ascent on the previous day, she would have been more conservative in her dive-planning. In a perfect world, the instructor, who was actually present on the dive in question (but not technically working as her instructor), would have provided better guidance and dissuaded her from doing such a dive.

Thanks for sharing the incident with the rest of us.

 

[DandyDon]

Maybe I am wrong or foolish for sticking to the requiremnts.

Nope, and Jim is certainly right with no doubt, but have you dived the Caribbean/Latin America A22? Any diver would be much better trained by Jim, and it's always best to take your own gear on trips or rental gear from your LDS that you've dived at home and are comfortable with. I bet Jim gives a good talk on the importance of good dive insurance even for vacation divers too.

When you leave the US tho, you leave the US...​

People go on Caribbean & Latin American vacations, and all those rules are generally forgotten. It'd be wise to get your AOW and lots of practice in the US first and I used to encourage newbies to go to Key Largo until they did - but in reality, hundreds of divers arrive in Cancun, Cozumel and many other locations every day, many for their first dive trip or to get trained, and they will be lead below 60 ft soon enough. Hell, I did 100 on my third resort dive in the Caribe.

Then there is the camera. Even an LDS will sell any new diver one if interested as they know that if they don't, they'll get it somewhere else. It's best to discourage, but it happens.

It's going to happen. Better to educate and prepare. Just say no failed in the Regan administration.

 

[tholden1]

I agree DandyDon, I suspect telling this girl no on anything wouldn't fly too well with her even if you explained the risk.

I hear what everyone's saying, and I agree. She's recovering but has to deal with the fact that she most likely waited too long to seek help.

The dive shop has been calling me frantically. I suspect their just trying to gather information, but since I've posted just about every detail I can think of on these forums and they admitted they're reading the posts, I don't know what else I can say at this point.

I do think PADI needs a full account of what occured and I would like to get their feedback on the AOW class I took with him.

I went under the assumption sometimes that since the instructors didn't have issue with some things, why should I. Like, when I was looking up at her while she was sitting on the surface for five minutes after her ascent. I saw the instructor doing nothing but watching, so I just watched. I waited for him to do something, or maybe the boat to get her. Then, she went back down and I thought "hey, everything I've read and have been told says not to go back down", but nothing was said or done so I figured it was all okay. After all, I didn't have the training that the instructors did.

I'm beginning to think that perhaps I shouldn't ignore those voices from my gut that say "hey, something's not right here". I don't always speak up especially if I think no one will listen, and that's something I need to work on.